Discussion:
Betty Windsor wants to suck my cocker spaniel....
(too old to reply)
Whack all imperialists
2008-03-30 00:29:13 UTC
Permalink
I today received an invitation to accompany my cocker spaniel on a
visit to Balmoral in July to meet Betty Windsor and her mob.
Apparently she wishes to suck the cocker. The invitation was kindly
delivered by the 2nd regiment, Paralethics. Betty took an interest in
my cocker having watched the hitherto unseen cuts from "Paarses Hilton
does Crufts". Naturally on both my own behalf and that of my cocker
Dick I declined the whore's invitation and responded by saying that
she would be better to tank Phil with Viagra and grab a jar of
Vaseline. Ones does so hope that such sad individuals will desist
from this troublesome nonsense.....
The Highlander
2008-03-30 02:22:13 UTC
Permalink
On Mar 29, 5:29 pm, Whack all imperialists <***@gmail.com> wrote:
I rated this post as total shit. Unfortunately, the "total shit"
option is not supplied by Google, but by our resident mental nutcase.
Suck on this one Seumas!

Staring into Northern Ireland's moral abyss
By Kevin Myers
Last Updated: 2:23am BST 30/03/2008

As if almost to acknowledge the victory of nationalist Ireland in the
moral abyss that has been the Northern Ireland peace process, the
Queen visited Belfast on Good Friday, the nationalist anniversary of
the Agreement of 10 years ago.

For as with almost everything in the province, that accord has two
identities. Unionists call it the Belfast Agreement and commemorate it
on the date it occurred, April 10.

Catholic nationalists link it with the Holy Day with which it happened
to coincide, the moveable feast of Good Friday. And that, of course,
was the day the Government chose for the Queen's visit.

Moral abyss? How could it be a moral abyss? Did it not bring peace to
Northern Ireland? Well, no, not really. The IRA had been all but
defeated by 1994. Its ranks, including its army council, were riddled
with informers.

The South Armagh salient alone held out, inviolate, intact and
unbroken; but this was only possible because respective Dublin
governments refused to seal the border around the salient, or to
unleash their special forces, the Rangers, on the IRA: and the
Rangers, moreover, would have relished the job.

Instead, Sinn Fein-IRA was brought, bought and feted into the peace
process, its leaders welcomed by Tony Blair at Chequers, while their
rivals in the Catholic population, the constitutional SDLP, were all
but frozen out by both governments.

No tea and biscuits for peaceful nationalists; only those who had
blown the heart out of London, who had tortured people to death, who
had been responsible for starting and continuing a savage war, got the
hospitality, and in due course, a place in the power-sharing
Executive.

This is Machiavellian real-politik, is it not? Indeed it is: and the
electors of Northern Ireland soon recognised it for just that. They
are not fools: if extremes were being rewarded for being extreme, then
clearly, the extremes should be the people to vote for.

Moreover, even though the IRA continued to murder people after the
Agreement of 1998, and mounted intelligence operations against other
members of the Executive, even though its agents were tracking the
movements of former ministers for justice in Dublin, even though it
mounted the biggest bank robbery in UK history, it was never punished
by exclusion from power.

For the peace process was solely about ensuring the IRA never bombed
London again; and as far as MI5 - the prime movers of the peace
process - was concerned, the corruption of Northern Irish political
life was a small price to pay.

The Agreement has turned religion from being just a denominational and
theological matter into a permanent political identity. Meanwhile, the
compromises made to keep Sinn Fein-IRA in countenance, regardless of
all else, have effectively destroyed the centrist parties, the Ulster
Unionist Party and the SDLP.

Left standing are the two groups that have been the authors of so much
misery, bigotry and suffering down the decades: Ian Paisley's
Democratic Unionist Party, and of course, the political arm of the
IRA, Sinn Fein.

These are the thugs, killers and bigots who have dominated much of my
entire career as a journalist. I lived and worked in Belfast from 1971
to 1978, a period covered in my book, Watching the Door.

I arrived there as the divisions, long since established in what we
may only loosely call a society, were beginning to sink deep to its
very heart.

On the one hand, we had the Protestant fundamentalists, opposed to any
conciliation with the Catholic minority, led and inspired by the
Reverend - and by God, what a ludicrous title that is - Ian Paisley,
and on the other, we had the Provisional IRA, led in Derry by Martin
McGuinness. Thus the vice: between its teeth, a society about to be
crushed close to gibbering lunacy.
More than 3,700 people lost their lives in the ensuing madness. Those
of us who passed through the early, terrible days of the Troubles
carry with us memories that will never depart.

In my case, I see, every single day of my life, the face of Cpl Robert
Bankier, of the Royal Green Jackets. One night, I was eavesdropping on
the Army radio net when I heard a report of a relatively innocent
stoning incident in Cromac Square in Belfast: but to my riot-
accustomed ears it sounded more like the prelude to an IRA ambush. It
was: I heard the gunshots as I arrived, and discovered poor Cpl
Bankier dying beside his Land-Rover.

Over the coming months in 1971, under the weight of terrorist attack
and burdened by an idiotic Unionist government to which Westminster
had lent the British Army, Northern Ireland fell apart.
advertisement

If there was a terrorist barbarity in the moral repertoire, short of
suicide-bombing (though this would come later), the IRA tried it. If
there was an utterly counter-productive imbecility in the locker of
state folly, the Stormont government, with a dullard's witless fist,
reached for it - and usually with the backing of a government in
London whose ignorance of Ireland was as great as it was of
Azerbaijan.

It is important to remember that the IRA leaders did not want reform.
They were moral absolutists who sought just one thing: the British
out, by force of arms only, and the creation of an all-Ireland state,
with a Gaelic, Catholic ethos. No quarter could be given to such a
demand.

Furthermore, it was clear the Northern Ireland government - which was
not even the intellectual match of Basingstoke borough council - was
incapable of coping with the security crisis: yet London failed to
take charge. The icing on the cake was supplied by the British Army,
fresh from its native-bashing experiences in Aden, the lessons of
which it applied in generous measure upon Northern Ireland's skulls.

I have thought about this long and hard. You can go back in a time-
machine and suspend the Northern Ireland government before it
committed its worst blunders; you can teach the British Army manners;
you can reform the RUC. This is all possible.

But you can do nothing about the historical determination of the IRA
to have a war. And nor can you diminish the wide-spread Protestant
dislike of Catholics. These are irreducible truths which cannot be
removed from the equation by the fiat of mere will. Too many people in
Northern Ireland wanted a war for them to be denied it; and a war was
what they duly got.

And it has to be said, war was what the Republic of Ireland tolerated.
Even after the British Conservative Party had abandoned its strategic
and historic alliance with the Ulster Unionist Party, and insisted
that constitutional nationalists must be brought into government in
Northern Ireland, the Irish government continued to allow the IRA to
use its territory as an operational base.

No IRA atrocity - La Mon, in which a dozen Protestants were
incinerated alive by home-made napalm, or the murder of the British
ambassador and his secretary in Dublin, or the extermination of the
Mountbatten boat party of children and octogenarians, or the
Remembrance Sunday massacre at Enniskillen, or other bestialities too
numerous too list - was enough to make the Republic of Ireland destroy
the evil in its midst. It is a shocking thing to say about one's own
country: but it is the abominable truth.

And so we had a 25-year war, concluding with "informers" being drowned
during IRA interrogation in baths of cold water, and suicide bombers
blowing up soldiers (the difference from Iraq being their ignorance of
their fate). The war then came to a negotiated settlement between the
various forces which had foisted conflict on the Province.

Political power in Northern Ireland now effectively belongs to a
republican Tonton Macoute, and a semi-religious political sect. But it
is only power in the most etiolated sense, for these ugly, conjoined
sisters cannot actually govern.

They have no consensus or programme. They spend, but they cannot rule:
and meanwhile, so-called "peace-lines", 12ft walls, have spread
through Belfast like fissures in a cracked plate. Ten years ago there
were 18 of them: now there are 40, in all, 13 miles long, keeping
Catholic and Protestant not merely physically apart, but blissfully
invisible to one another.
Moreover, most people have forgotten, or will not state, this central
truth. One way or another, and sooner or later, peace was a certainty.
The IRA capacity to strike had been diminished by a systematic
penetration of the terrorist structure by British agents.
Indeed, the obsequies upon the IRA's campaign could have been
pronounced at least a decade earlier, if the Irish Republic had shown
the necessary political courage to crush the IRA.

So the real achievement of the Belfast Agreement was to give a
political lifeline to a militarily doomed Sinn Fein-IRA. Its
leadership now has the power to decide whether to allow policing to
devolve to the Northern Ireland Executive (though this opera-bouffe
confection can agree on almost nothing).
Indeed, President McAleese told the Queen - in public, no less -that
Her Majesty would not be invited to Dublin until control of policing
had returned to Northern Ireland hands.
Apart from this being an astounding departure from both basic good
manners and presidential protocol - the Irish head of state no more
makes such public pronouncements on policy, while standing on what is
legally foreign soil, than does the British monarch - this has one
astonishing implication. It is that any possible invitation for the
Queen to visit Dublin is now entirely dependent upon the whim of the
Army council of the IRA.

In other words, relations between the two Anglophone states of the EU
are to be presided over by a group of failed terrorists. Like the
multiplying peace-lines across the city, that is just one of the many
grotesque legacies of what was agreed in Belfast, on A Long Good
Friday, April 10, 1998.

* Watching the Door: Cheating Death in 1970s Belfast by Kevin Myers is
out now (Atlantic Books; £14.99).

So there you go Seumas. The only voice left speaking for the Republic
is that impudent bitch McAleese who tried to tell our Queen on her own
legal territory, what to do. Time to get our troops back home and sort
out Ireland once and for all.
Whack all imperialists
2008-03-30 03:56:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Highlander
I rated this post as total shit. Unfortunately, the "total shit"
option is not supplied by Google, but by our resident mental nutcase.
Suck on this one Seumas!
Staring into Northern Ireland's moral abyss
 By Kevin Myers
Last Updated: 2:23am BST 30/03/2008
As if almost to acknowledge the victory of nationalist Ireland in the
moral abyss that has been the Northern Ireland peace process, the
Queen visited Belfast on Good Friday, the nationalist anniversary of
the Agreement of 10 years ago.
For as with almost everything in the province, that accord has two
identities. Unionists call it the Belfast Agreement and commemorate it
on the date it occurred, April 10.
Catholic nationalists link it with the Holy Day with which it happened
to coincide, the moveable feast of Good Friday. And that, of course,
was the day the Government chose for the Queen's visit.
Moral abyss? How could it be a moral abyss? Did it not bring peace to
Northern Ireland? Well, no, not really. The IRA had been all but
defeated by 1994. Its ranks, including its army council, were riddled
with informers.
The South Armagh salient alone held out, inviolate, intact and
unbroken; but this was only possible because respective Dublin
governments refused to seal the border around the salient, or to
unleash their special forces, the Rangers, on the IRA: and the
Rangers, moreover, would have relished the job.
Instead, Sinn Fein-IRA was brought, bought and feted into the peace
process, its leaders welcomed by Tony Blair at Chequers, while their
rivals in the Catholic population, the constitutional SDLP, were all
but frozen out by both governments.
No tea and biscuits for peaceful nationalists; only those who had
blown the heart out of London, who had tortured people to death, who
had been responsible for starting and continuing a savage war, got the
hospitality, and in due course, a place in the power-sharing
Executive.
This is Machiavellian real-politik, is it not? Indeed it is: and the
electors of Northern Ireland soon recognised it for just that. They
are not fools: if extremes were being rewarded for being extreme, then
clearly, the extremes should be the people to vote for.
Moreover, even though the IRA continued to murder people after the
Agreement of 1998, and mounted intelligence operations against other
members of the Executive, even though its agents were tracking the
movements of former ministers for justice in Dublin, even though it
mounted the biggest bank robbery in UK history, it was never punished
by exclusion from power.
For the peace process was solely about ensuring the IRA never bombed
London again; and as far as MI5 - the prime movers of the peace
process - was concerned, the corruption of Northern Irish political
life was a small price to pay.
The Agreement has turned religion from being just a denominational and
theological matter into a permanent political identity. Meanwhile, the
compromises made to keep Sinn Fein-IRA in countenance, regardless of
all else, have effectively destroyed the centrist parties, the Ulster
Unionist Party and the SDLP.
Left standing are the two groups that have been the authors of so much
misery, bigotry and suffering down the decades: Ian Paisley's
Democratic Unionist Party, and of course, the political arm of the
IRA, Sinn Fein.
These are the thugs, killers and bigots who have dominated much of my
entire career as a journalist. I lived and worked in Belfast from 1971
to 1978, a period covered in my book, Watching the Door.
I arrived there as the divisions, long since established in what we
may only loosely call a society, were beginning to sink deep to its
very heart.
On the one hand, we had the Protestant fundamentalists, opposed to any
conciliation with the Catholic minority, led and inspired by the
Reverend - and by God, what a ludicrous title that is - Ian Paisley,
and on the other, we had the Provisional IRA, led in Derry by Martin
McGuinness. Thus the vice: between its teeth, a society about to be
crushed close to gibbering lunacy.
More than 3,700 people lost their lives in the ensuing madness. Those
of us who passed through the early, terrible days of the Troubles
carry with us memories that will never depart.
In my case, I see, every single day of my life, the face of Cpl Robert
Bankier, of the Royal Green Jackets. One night, I was eavesdropping on
the Army radio net when I heard a report of a relatively innocent
stoning incident in Cromac Square in Belfast: but to my riot-
accustomed ears it sounded more like the prelude to an IRA ambush. It
was: I heard the gunshots as I arrived, and discovered poor Cpl
Bankier dying beside his Land-Rover.
Over the coming months in 1971, under the weight of terrorist attack
and burdened by an idiotic Unionist government to which Westminster
had lent the British Army, Northern Ireland fell apart.
advertisement
If there was a terrorist barbarity in the moral repertoire, short of
suicide-bombing (though this would come later), the IRA tried it. If
there was an utterly counter-productive imbecility in the locker of
state folly, the Stormont government, with a dullard's witless fist,
reached for it - and usually with the backing of a government in
London whose ignorance of Ireland was as great as it was of
Azerbaijan.
It is important to remember that the IRA leaders did not want reform.
They were moral absolutists who sought just one thing: the British
out, by force of arms only, and the creation of an all-Ireland state,
with a Gaelic, Catholic ethos. No quarter could be given to such a
demand.
Furthermore, it was clear the Northern Ireland government - which was
not even the intellectual match of Basingstoke borough council - was
incapable of coping with the security crisis: yet London failed to
take charge. The icing on the cake was supplied by the British Army,
fresh from its native-bashing experiences in Aden, the lessons of
which it applied in generous measure upon Northern Ireland's skulls.
I have thought about this long and hard. You can go back in a time-
machine and suspend the Northern Ireland government before it
committed its worst blunders; you can teach the British Army manners;
you can reform the RUC. This is all possible.
But you can do nothing about the historical determination of the IRA
to have a war. And nor can you diminish the wide-spread Protestant
dislike of Catholics. These are irreducible truths which cannot be
removed from the equation by the fiat of mere will. Too many people in
Northern Ireland wanted a war for them to be denied it; and a war was
what they duly got.
And it has to be said, war was what the Republic of Ireland tolerated.
Even after the British Conservative Party had abandoned its strategic
and historic alliance with the Ulster Unionist Party, and insisted
that constitutional nationalists must be brought into government in
Northern Ireland, the Irish government continued to allow the IRA to
use its territory as an operational base.
No IRA atrocity - La Mon, in which a dozen Protestants were
incinerated alive by home-made napalm, or the murder of the British
ambassador and his secretary in Dublin, or the extermination of the
Mountbatten boat party of children and octogenarians, or the
Remembrance Sunday massacre at Enniskillen, or other bestialities too
numerous too list - was enough to make the Republic of Ireland destroy
the evil in its midst. It is a shocking thing to say about one's own
country: but it is the abominable truth.
And so we had a 25-year war, concluding with "informers" being drowned
during IRA interrogation in baths of cold water, and suicide bombers
blowing up soldiers (the difference from Iraq being their ignorance of
their fate). The war then came to a negotiated settlement between the
various forces which had foisted conflict on the Province.
Political power in Northern Ireland now effectively belongs to a
republican Tonton Macoute, and a semi-religious political sect. But it
is only power in the most etiolated sense, for these ugly, conjoined
sisters cannot actually govern.
and meanwhile, so-called "peace-lines", 12ft walls, have spread
through Belfast like fissures in a cracked plate. Ten years ago there
were 18 of them: now there are 40, in all, 13 miles long, keeping
Catholic and Protestant not merely physically apart, but blissfully
invisible to one another.
Moreover, most people have forgotten, or will not state, this central
truth. One way or another, and sooner or later, peace was a certainty.
The IRA capacity to strike had been diminished by a systematic
penetration of the terrorist structure by British agents.
Indeed, the obsequies upon the IRA's campaign could have been
pronounced at least a decade earlier, if the Irish Republic had shown
the necessary political courage to crush the IRA.
So the real achievement of the Belfast Agreement was to give a
political lifeline to a militarily doomed Sinn Fein-IRA. Its
leadership now has the power to decide whether to allow policing to
devolve to the Northern Ireland Executive (though this opera-bouffe
confection can agree on almost nothing).
Indeed, President McAleese told the Queen - in public, no less -that
Her Majesty would not be invited to Dublin until control of policing
had returned to Northern Ireland hands.
Apart from this being an astounding departure from both basic good
manners and presidential protocol - the Irish head of state no more
makes such public pronouncements on policy, while standing on what is
legally foreign soil, than does the British monarch - this has one
astonishing implication. It is that any possible invitation for the
Queen to visit Dublin is now entirely dependent upon the whim of the
Army council of the IRA.
In other words, relations between the two Anglophone states of the EU
are to be presided over by a group of failed terrorists. Like the ...
read more »
One rather hopes that criticism should not be predicated upon the
ramblings of a west brit such as Caoimhin MyArse....
Whack all imperialists
2008-03-30 04:05:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Highlander
I rated this post as total shit. Unfortunately, the "total shit"
option is not supplied by Google, but by our resident mental nutcase.
Suck on this one Seumas!
Staring into Northern Ireland's moral abyss
 By Kevin Myers
Last Updated: 2:23am BST 30/03/2008
As if almost to acknowledge the victory of nationalist Ireland in the
moral abyss that has been the Northern Ireland peace process, the
Queen visited Belfast on Good Friday, the nationalist anniversary of
the Agreement of 10 years ago.
For as with almost everything in the province, that accord has two
identities. Unionists call it the Belfast Agreement and commemorate it
on the date it occurred, April 10.
Catholic nationalists link it with the Holy Day with which it happened
to coincide, the moveable feast of Good Friday. And that, of course,
was the day the Government chose for the Queen's visit.
Moral abyss? How could it be a moral abyss? Did it not bring peace to
Northern Ireland? Well, no, not really. The IRA had been all but
defeated by 1994. Its ranks, including its army council, were riddled
with informers.
The South Armagh salient alone held out, inviolate, intact and
unbroken; but this was only possible because respective Dublin
governments refused to seal the border around the salient, or to
unleash their special forces, the Rangers, on the IRA: and the
Rangers, moreover, would have relished the job.
Instead, Sinn Fein-IRA was brought, bought and feted into the peace
process, its leaders welcomed by Tony Blair at Chequers, while their
rivals in the Catholic population, the constitutional SDLP, were all
but frozen out by both governments.
No tea and biscuits for peaceful nationalists; only those who had
blown the heart out of London, who had tortured people to death, who
had been responsible for starting and continuing a savage war, got the
hospitality, and in due course, a place in the power-sharing
Executive.
This is Machiavellian real-politik, is it not? Indeed it is: and the
electors of Northern Ireland soon recognised it for just that. They
are not fools: if extremes were being rewarded for being extreme, then
clearly, the extremes should be the people to vote for.
Moreover, even though the IRA continued to murder people after the
Agreement of 1998, and mounted intelligence operations against other
members of the Executive, even though its agents were tracking the
movements of former ministers for justice in Dublin, even though it
mounted the biggest bank robbery in UK history, it was never punished
by exclusion from power.
For the peace process was solely about ensuring the IRA never bombed
London again; and as far as MI5 - the prime movers of the peace
process - was concerned, the corruption of Northern Irish political
life was a small price to pay.
The Agreement has turned religion from being just a denominational and
theological matter into a permanent political identity. Meanwhile, the
compromises made to keep Sinn Fein-IRA in countenance, regardless of
all else, have effectively destroyed the centrist parties, the Ulster
Unionist Party and the SDLP.
Left standing are the two groups that have been the authors of so much
misery, bigotry and suffering down the decades: Ian Paisley's
Democratic Unionist Party, and of course, the political arm of the
IRA, Sinn Fein.
These are the thugs, killers and bigots who have dominated much of my
entire career as a journalist. I lived and worked in Belfast from 1971
to 1978, a period covered in my book, Watching the Door.
I arrived there as the divisions, long since established in what we
may only loosely call a society, were beginning to sink deep to its
very heart.
On the one hand, we had the Protestant fundamentalists, opposed to any
conciliation with the Catholic minority, led and inspired by the
Reverend - and by God, what a ludicrous title that is - Ian Paisley,
and on the other, we had the Provisional IRA, led in Derry by Martin
McGuinness. Thus the vice: between its teeth, a society about to be
crushed close to gibbering lunacy.
More than 3,700 people lost their lives in the ensuing madness. Those
of us who passed through the early, terrible days of the Troubles
carry with us memories that will never depart.
In my case, I see, every single day of my life, the face of Cpl Robert
Bankier, of the Royal Green Jackets. One night, I was eavesdropping on
the Army radio net when I heard a report of a relatively innocent
stoning incident in Cromac Square in Belfast: but to my riot-
accustomed ears it sounded more like the prelude to an IRA ambush. It
was: I heard the gunshots as I arrived, and discovered poor Cpl
Bankier dying beside his Land-Rover.
Over the coming months in 1971, under the weight of terrorist attack
and burdened by an idiotic Unionist government to which Westminster
had lent the British Army, Northern Ireland fell apart.
advertisement
If there was a terrorist barbarity in the moral repertoire, short of
suicide-bombing (though this would come later), the IRA tried it. If
there was an utterly counter-productive imbecility in the locker of
state folly, the Stormont government, with a dullard's witless fist,
reached for it - and usually with the backing of a government in
London whose ignorance of Ireland was as great as it was of
Azerbaijan.
It is important to remember that the IRA leaders did not want reform.
They were moral absolutists who sought just one thing: the British
out, by force of arms only, and the creation of an all-Ireland state,
with a Gaelic, Catholic ethos. No quarter could be given to such a
demand.
Furthermore, it was clear the Northern Ireland government - which was
not even the intellectual match of Basingstoke borough council - was
incapable of coping with the security crisis: yet London failed to
take charge. The icing on the cake was supplied by the British Army,
fresh from its native-bashing experiences in Aden, the lessons of
which it applied in generous measure upon Northern Ireland's skulls.
I have thought about this long and hard. You can go back in a time-
machine and suspend the Northern Ireland government before it
committed its worst blunders; you can teach the British Army manners;
you can reform the RUC. This is all possible.
But you can do nothing about the historical determination of the IRA
to have a war. And nor can you diminish the wide-spread Protestant
dislike of Catholics. These are irreducible truths which cannot be
removed from the equation by the fiat of mere will. Too many people in
Northern Ireland wanted a war for them to be denied it; and a war was
what they duly got.
And it has to be said, war was what the Republic of Ireland tolerated.
Even after the British Conservative Party had abandoned its strategic
and historic alliance with the Ulster Unionist Party, and insisted
that constitutional nationalists must be brought into government in
Northern Ireland, the Irish government continued to allow the IRA to
use its territory as an operational base.
No IRA atrocity - La Mon, in which a dozen Protestants were
incinerated alive by home-made napalm, or the murder of the British
ambassador and his secretary in Dublin, or the extermination of the
Mountbatten boat party of children and octogenarians, or the
Remembrance Sunday massacre at Enniskillen, or other bestialities too
numerous too list - was enough to make the Republic of Ireland destroy
the evil in its midst. It is a shocking thing to say about one's own
country: but it is the abominable truth.
And so we had a 25-year war, concluding with "informers" being drowned
during IRA interrogation in baths of cold water, and suicide bombers
blowing up soldiers (the difference from Iraq being their ignorance of
their fate). The war then came to a negotiated settlement between the
various forces which had foisted conflict on the Province.
Political power in Northern Ireland now effectively belongs to a
republican Tonton Macoute, and a semi-religious political sect. But it
is only power in the most etiolated sense, for these ugly, conjoined
sisters cannot actually govern.
and meanwhile, so-called "peace-lines", 12ft walls, have spread
through Belfast like fissures in a cracked plate. Ten years ago there
were 18 of them: now there are 40, in all, 13 miles long, keeping
Catholic and Protestant not merely physically apart, but blissfully
invisible to one another.
Moreover, most people have forgotten, or will not state, this central
truth. One way or another, and sooner or later, peace was a certainty.
The IRA capacity to strike had been diminished by a systematic
penetration of the terrorist structure by British agents.
Indeed, the obsequies upon the IRA's campaign could have been
pronounced at least a decade earlier, if the Irish Republic had shown
the necessary political courage to crush the IRA.
So the real achievement of the Belfast Agreement was to give a
political lifeline to a militarily doomed Sinn Fein-IRA. Its
leadership now has the power to decide whether to allow policing to
devolve to the Northern Ireland Executive (though this opera-bouffe
confection can agree on almost nothing).
Indeed, President McAleese told the Queen - in public, no less -that
Her Majesty would not be invited to Dublin until control of policing
had returned to Northern Ireland hands.
Apart from this being an astounding departure from both basic good
manners and presidential protocol - the Irish head of state no more
makes such public pronouncements on policy, while standing on what is
legally foreign soil, than does the British monarch - this has one
astonishing implication. It is that any possible invitation for the
Queen to visit Dublin is now entirely dependent upon the whim of the
Army council of the IRA.
In other words, relations between the two Anglophone states of the EU
are to be presided over by a group of failed terrorists. Like the ...
read more »
The Cross boys would have eaten the Rangers for light breakfast.
Those free state bastards would have collapsed at Hackballs Cross. I
infiltrated the "rangers" and discovered that they were a useless
bunch of alcohics scarely competent to prevent the conversion to dog
food of Bobby Nairac. Half of them suffered from syphillis. On a
good day a decent volunteer with a Barrett would have cleared the
lot...
Whack all imperialists
2008-03-30 04:09:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Whack all imperialists
Post by The Highlander
I rated this post as total shit. Unfortunately, the "total shit"
option is not supplied by Google, but by our resident mental nutcase.
Suck on this one Seumas!
Staring into Northern Ireland's moral abyss
 By Kevin Myers
Last Updated: 2:23am BST 30/03/2008
As if almost to acknowledge the victory of nationalist Ireland in the
moral abyss that has been the Northern Ireland peace process, the
Queen visited Belfast on Good Friday, the nationalist anniversary of
the Agreement of 10 years ago.
For as with almost everything in the province, that accord has two
identities. Unionists call it the Belfast Agreement and commemorate it
on the date it occurred, April 10.
Catholic nationalists link it with the Holy Day with which it happened
to coincide, the moveable feast of Good Friday. And that, of course,
was the day the Government chose for the Queen's visit.
Moral abyss? How could it be a moral abyss? Did it not bring peace to
Northern Ireland? Well, no, not really. The IRA had been all but
defeated by 1994. Its ranks, including its army council, were riddled
with informers.
The South Armagh salient alone held out, inviolate, intact and
unbroken; but this was only possible because respective Dublin
governments refused to seal the border around the salient, or to
unleash their special forces, the Rangers, on the IRA: and the
Rangers, moreover, would have relished the job.
Instead, Sinn Fein-IRA was brought, bought and feted into the peace
process, its leaders welcomed by Tony Blair at Chequers, while their
rivals in the Catholic population, the constitutional SDLP, were all
but frozen out by both governments.
No tea and biscuits for peaceful nationalists; only those who had
blown the heart out of London, who had tortured people to death, who
had been responsible for starting and continuing a savage war, got the
hospitality, and in due course, a place in the power-sharing
Executive.
This is Machiavellian real-politik, is it not? Indeed it is: and the
electors of Northern Ireland soon recognised it for just that. They
are not fools: if extremes were being rewarded for being extreme, then
clearly, the extremes should be the people to vote for.
Moreover, even though the IRA continued to murder people after the
Agreement of 1998, and mounted intelligence operations against other
members of the Executive, even though its agents were tracking the
movements of former ministers for justice in Dublin, even though it
mounted the biggest bank robbery in UK history, it was never punished
by exclusion from power.
For the peace process was solely about ensuring the IRA never bombed
London again; and as far as MI5 - the prime movers of the peace
process - was concerned, the corruption of Northern Irish political
life was a small price to pay.
The Agreement has turned religion from being just a denominational and
theological matter into a permanent political identity. Meanwhile, the
compromises made to keep Sinn Fein-IRA in countenance, regardless of
all else, have effectively destroyed the centrist parties, the Ulster
Unionist Party and the SDLP.
Left standing are the two groups that have been the authors of so much
misery, bigotry and suffering down the decades: Ian Paisley's
Democratic Unionist Party, and of course, the political arm of the
IRA, Sinn Fein.
These are the thugs, killers and bigots who have dominated much of my
entire career as a journalist. I lived and worked in Belfast from 1971
to 1978, a period covered in my book, Watching the Door.
I arrived there as the divisions, long since established in what we
may only loosely call a society, were beginning to sink deep to its
very heart.
On the one hand, we had the Protestant fundamentalists, opposed to any
conciliation with the Catholic minority, led and inspired by the
Reverend - and by God, what a ludicrous title that is - Ian Paisley,
and on the other, we had the Provisional IRA, led in Derry by Martin
McGuinness. Thus the vice: between its teeth, a society about to be
crushed close to gibbering lunacy.
More than 3,700 people lost their lives in the ensuing madness. Those
of us who passed through the early, terrible days of the Troubles
carry with us memories that will never depart.
In my case, I see, every single day of my life, the face of Cpl Robert
Bankier, of the Royal Green Jackets. One night, I was eavesdropping on
the Army radio net when I heard a report of a relatively innocent
stoning incident in Cromac Square in Belfast: but to my riot-
accustomed ears it sounded more like the prelude to an IRA ambush. It
was: I heard the gunshots as I arrived, and discovered poor Cpl
Bankier dying beside his Land-Rover.
Over the coming months in 1971, under the weight of terrorist attack
and burdened by an idiotic Unionist government to which Westminster
had lent the British Army, Northern Ireland fell apart.
advertisement
If there was a terrorist barbarity in the moral repertoire, short of
suicide-bombing (though this would come later), the IRA tried it. If
there was an utterly counter-productive imbecility in the locker of
state folly, the Stormont government, with a dullard's witless fist,
reached for it - and usually with the backing of a government in
London whose ignorance of Ireland was as great as it was of
Azerbaijan.
It is important to remember that the IRA leaders did not want reform.
They were moral absolutists who sought just one thing: the British
out, by force of arms only, and the creation of an all-Ireland state,
with a Gaelic, Catholic ethos. No quarter could be given to such a
demand.
Furthermore, it was clear the Northern Ireland government - which was
not even the intellectual match of Basingstoke borough council - was
incapable of coping with the security crisis: yet London failed to
take charge. The icing on the cake was supplied by the British Army,
fresh from its native-bashing experiences in Aden, the lessons of
which it applied in generous measure upon Northern Ireland's skulls.
I have thought about this long and hard. You can go back in a time-
machine and suspend the Northern Ireland government before it
committed its worst blunders; you can teach the British Army manners;
you can reform the RUC. This is all possible.
But you can do nothing about the historical determination of the IRA
to have a war. And nor can you diminish the wide-spread Protestant
dislike of Catholics. These are irreducible truths which cannot be
removed from the equation by the fiat of mere will. Too many people in
Northern Ireland wanted a war for them to be denied it; and a war was
what they duly got.
And it has to be said, war was what the Republic of Ireland tolerated.
Even after the British Conservative Party had abandoned its strategic
and historic alliance with the Ulster Unionist Party, and insisted
that constitutional nationalists must be brought into government in
Northern Ireland, the Irish government continued to allow the IRA to
use its territory as an operational base.
No IRA atrocity - La Mon, in which a dozen Protestants were
incinerated alive by home-made napalm, or the murder of the British
ambassador and his secretary in Dublin, or the extermination of the
Mountbatten boat party of children and octogenarians, or the
Remembrance Sunday massacre at Enniskillen, or other bestialities too
numerous too list - was enough to make the Republic of Ireland destroy
the evil in its midst. It is a shocking thing to say about one's own
country: but it is the abominable truth.
And so we had a 25-year war, concluding with "informers" being drowned
during IRA interrogation in baths of cold water, and suicide bombers
blowing up soldiers (the difference from Iraq being their ignorance of
their fate). The war then came to a negotiated settlement between the
various forces which had foisted conflict on the Province.
Political power in Northern Ireland now effectively belongs to a
republican Tonton Macoute, and a semi-religious political sect. But it
is only power in the most etiolated sense, for these ugly, conjoined
sisters cannot actually govern.
and meanwhile, so-called "peace-lines", 12ft walls, have spread
through Belfast like fissures in a cracked plate. Ten years ago there
were 18 of them: now there are 40, in all, 13 miles long, keeping
Catholic and Protestant not merely physically apart, but blissfully
invisible to one another.
Moreover, most people have forgotten, or will not state, this central
truth. One way or another, and sooner or later, peace was a certainty.
The IRA capacity to strike had been diminished by a systematic
penetration of the terrorist structure by British agents.
Indeed, the obsequies upon the IRA's campaign could have been
pronounced at least a decade earlier, if the Irish Republic had shown
the necessary political courage to crush the IRA.
So the real achievement of the Belfast Agreement was to give a
political lifeline to a militarily doomed Sinn Fein-IRA. Its
leadership now has the power to decide whether to allow policing to
devolve to the Northern Ireland Executive (though this opera-bouffe
confection can agree on almost nothing).
Indeed, President McAleese told the Queen - in public, no less -that
Her Majesty would not be invited to Dublin until control of policing
had returned to Northern Ireland hands.
Apart from this being an astounding departure from both basic good
manners and presidential protocol - the Irish head of state no more
makes such public pronouncements on policy, while standing on what is
legally foreign soil, than does the British monarch - this has one
astonishing implication. It is that any possible invitation for the
Queen to visit Dublin is now entirely dependent upon the whim of the
Army council of the IRA.
In other words, relations between the two Anglophone states of the EU
are to be presided over by a group of failed terrorists. Like the ...
read more »
The Cross boys would have eaten the Rangers for light breakfast.
Those free state bastards would have collapsed at Hackballs Cross.  I
infiltrated the "rangers" and discovered that they were a useless
bunch of alcohics scarely competent to prevent the conversion to dog
food of Bobby Nairac.  Half of them suffered from syphillis.  On a
good day a decent volunteer with a Barrett would have cleared the
lot...
"We are Rangers, Glascow Glascow Rangers"
The Highlander
2008-03-30 05:47:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Highlander
Post by The Highlander
I rated this post as total shit. Unfortunately, the "total shit"
option is not supplied by Google, but by our resident mental nutcase.
Suck on this one Seumas!
Staring into Northern Ireland's moral abyss
By Kevin Myers
Last Updated: 2:23am BST 30/03/2008
As if almost to acknowledge the victory of nationalist Ireland in the
moral abyss that has been the Northern Ireland peace process, the
Queen visited Belfast on Good Friday, the nationalist anniversary of
the Agreement of 10 years ago.
For as with almost everything in the province, that accord has two
identities. Unionists call it the Belfast Agreement and commemorate it
on the date it occurred, April 10.
Catholic nationalists link it with the Holy Day with which it happened
to coincide, the moveable feast of Good Friday. And that, of course,
was the day the Government chose for the Queen's visit.
Moral abyss? How could it be a moral abyss? Did it not bring peace to
Northern Ireland? Well, no, not really. The IRA had been all but
defeated by 1994. Its ranks, including its army council, were riddled
with informers.
The South Armagh salient alone held out, inviolate, intact and
unbroken; but this was only possible because respective Dublin
governments refused to seal the border around the salient, or to
unleash their special forces, the Rangers, on the IRA: and the
Rangers, moreover, would have relished the job.
Instead, Sinn Fein-IRA was brought, bought and feted into the peace
process, its leaders welcomed by Tony Blair at Chequers, while their
rivals in the Catholic population, the constitutional SDLP, were all
but frozen out by both governments.
No tea and biscuits for peaceful nationalists; only those who had
blown the heart out of London, who had tortured people to death, who
had been responsible for starting and continuing a savage war, got the
hospitality, and in due course, a place in the power-sharing
Executive.
This is Machiavellian real-politik, is it not? Indeed it is: and the
electors of Northern Ireland soon recognised it for just that. They
are not fools: if extremes were being rewarded for being extreme, then
clearly, the extremes should be the people to vote for.
Moreover, even though the IRA continued to murder people after the
Agreement of 1998, and mounted intelligence operations against other
members of the Executive, even though its agents were tracking the
movements of former ministers for justice in Dublin, even though it
mounted the biggest bank robbery in UK history, it was never punished
by exclusion from power.
For the peace process was solely about ensuring the IRA never bombed
London again; and as far as MI5 - the prime movers of the peace
process - was concerned, the corruption of Northern Irish political
life was a small price to pay.
The Agreement has turned religion from being just a denominational and
theological matter into a permanent political identity. Meanwhile, the
compromises made to keep Sinn Fein-IRA in countenance, regardless of
all else, have effectively destroyed the centrist parties, the Ulster
Unionist Party and the SDLP.
Left standing are the two groups that have been the authors of so much
misery, bigotry and suffering down the decades: Ian Paisley's
Democratic Unionist Party, and of course, the political arm of the
IRA, Sinn Fein.
These are the thugs, killers and bigots who have dominated much of my
entire career as a journalist. I lived and worked in Belfast from 1971
to 1978, a period covered in my book, Watching the Door.
I arrived there as the divisions, long since established in what we
may only loosely call a society, were beginning to sink deep to its
very heart.
On the one hand, we had the Protestant fundamentalists, opposed to any
conciliation with the Catholic minority, led and inspired by the
Reverend - and by God, what a ludicrous title that is - Ian Paisley,
and on the other, we had the Provisional IRA, led in Derry by Martin
McGuinness. Thus the vice: between its teeth, a society about to be
crushed close to gibbering lunacy.
More than 3,700 people lost their lives in the ensuing madness. Those
of us who passed through the early, terrible days of the Troubles
carry with us memories that will never depart.
In my case, I see, every single day of my life, the face of Cpl Robert
Bankier, of the Royal Green Jackets. One night, I was eavesdropping on
the Army radio net when I heard a report of a relatively innocent
stoning incident in Cromac Square in Belfast: but to my riot-
accustomed ears it sounded more like the prelude to an IRA ambush. It
was: I heard the gunshots as I arrived, and discovered poor Cpl
Bankier dying beside his Land-Rover.
Over the coming months in 1971, under the weight of terrorist attack
and burdened by an idiotic Unionist government to which Westminster
had lent the British Army, Northern Ireland fell apart.
advertisement
If there was a terrorist barbarity in the moral repertoire, short of
suicide-bombing (though this would come later), the IRA tried it. If
there was an utterly counter-productive imbecility in the locker of
state folly, the Stormont government, with a dullard's witless fist,
reached for it - and usually with the backing of a government in
London whose ignorance of Ireland was as great as it was of
Azerbaijan.
It is important to remember that the IRA leaders did not want reform.
They were moral absolutists who sought just one thing: the British
out, by force of arms only, and the creation of an all-Ireland state,
with a Gaelic, Catholic ethos. No quarter could be given to such a
demand.
Furthermore, it was clear the Northern Ireland government - which was
not even the intellectual match of Basingstoke borough council - was
incapable of coping with the security crisis: yet London failed to
take charge. The icing on the cake was supplied by the British Army,
fresh from its native-bashing experiences in Aden, the lessons of
which it applied in generous measure upon Northern Ireland's skulls.
I have thought about this long and hard. You can go back in a time-
machine and suspend the Northern Ireland government before it
committed its worst blunders; you can teach the British Army manners;
you can reform the RUC. This is all possible.
But you can do nothing about the historical determination of the IRA
to have a war. And nor can you diminish the wide-spread Protestant
dislike of Catholics. These are irreducible truths which cannot be
removed from the equation by the fiat of mere will. Too many people in
Northern Ireland wanted a war for them to be denied it; and a war was
what they duly got.
And it has to be said, war was what the Republic of Ireland tolerated.
Even after the British Conservative Party had abandoned its strategic
and historic alliance with the Ulster Unionist Party, and insisted
that constitutional nationalists must be brought into government in
Northern Ireland, the Irish government continued to allow the IRA to
use its territory as an operational base.
No IRA atrocity - La Mon, in which a dozen Protestants were
incinerated alive by home-made napalm, or the murder of the British
ambassador and his secretary in Dublin, or the extermination of the
Mountbatten boat party of children and octogenarians, or the
Remembrance Sunday massacre at Enniskillen, or other bestialities too
numerous too list - was enough to make the Republic of Ireland destroy
the evil in its midst. It is a shocking thing to say about one's own
country: but it is the abominable truth.
And so we had a 25-year war, concluding with "informers" being drowned
during IRA interrogation in baths of cold water, and suicide bombers
blowing up soldiers (the difference from Iraq being their ignorance of
their fate). The war then came to a negotiated settlement between the
various forces which had foisted conflict on the Province.
Political power in Northern Ireland now effectively belongs to a
republican Tonton Macoute, and a semi-religious political sect. But it
is only power in the most etiolated sense, for these ugly, conjoined
sisters cannot actually govern.
and meanwhile, so-called "peace-lines", 12ft walls, have spread
through Belfast like fissures in a cracked plate. Ten years ago there
were 18 of them: now there are 40, in all, 13 miles long, keeping
Catholic and Protestant not merely physically apart, but blissfully
invisible to one another.
Moreover, most people have forgotten, or will not state, this central
truth. One way or another, and sooner or later, peace was a certainty.
The IRA capacity to strike had been diminished by a systematic
penetration of the terrorist structure by British agents.
Indeed, the obsequies upon the IRA's campaign could have been
pronounced at least a decade earlier, if the Irish Republic had shown
the necessary political courage to crush the IRA.
So the real achievement of the Belfast Agreement was to give a
political lifeline to a militarily doomed Sinn Fein-IRA. Its
leadership now has the power to decide whether to allow policing to
devolve to the Northern Ireland Executive (though this opera-bouffe
confection can agree
...
read more »
The Highlander
2008-03-31 14:15:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Whack all imperialists
Post by The Highlander
I rated this post as total shit. Unfortunately, the "total shit"
option is not supplied by Google, but by our resident mental nutcase.
Suck on this one Seumas!
Staring into Northern Ireland's moral abyss
By Kevin Myers
Last Updated: 2:23am BST 30/03/2008
As if almost to acknowledge the victory of nationalist Ireland in the
moral abyss that has been the Northern Ireland peace process, the
Queen visited Belfast on Good Friday, the nationalist anniversary of
the Agreement of 10 years ago.
For as with almost everything in the province, that accord has two
identities. Unionists call it the Belfast Agreement and commemorate it
on the date it occurred, April 10.
Catholic nationalists link it with the Holy Day with which it happened
to coincide, the moveable feast of Good Friday. And that, of course,
was the day the Government chose for the Queen's visit.
Moral abyss? How could it be a moral abyss? Did it not bring peace to
Northern Ireland? Well, no, not really. The IRA had been all but
defeated by 1994. Its ranks, including its army council, were riddled
with informers.
The South Armagh salient alone held out, inviolate, intact and
unbroken; but this was only possible because respective Dublin
governments refused to seal the border around the salient, or to
unleash their special forces, the Rangers, on the IRA: and the
Rangers, moreover, would have relished the job.
Instead, Sinn Fein-IRA was brought, bought and feted into the peace
process, its leaders welcomed by Tony Blair at Chequers, while their
rivals in the Catholic population, the constitutional SDLP, were all
but frozen out by both governments.
No tea and biscuits for peaceful nationalists; only those who had
blown the heart out of London, who had tortured people to death, who
had been responsible for starting and continuing a savage war, got the
hospitality, and in due course, a place in the power-sharing
Executive.
This is Machiavellian real-politik, is it not? Indeed it is: and the
electors of Northern Ireland soon recognised it for just that. They
are not fools: if extremes were being rewarded for being extreme, then
clearly, the extremes should be the people to vote for.
Moreover, even though the IRA continued to murder people after the
Agreement of 1998, and mounted intelligence operations against other
members of the Executive, even though its agents were tracking the
movements of former ministers for justice in Dublin, even though it
mounted the biggest bank robbery in UK history, it was never punished
by exclusion from power.
For the peace process was solely about ensuring the IRA never bombed
London again; and as far as MI5 - the prime movers of the peace
process - was concerned, the corruption of Northern Irish political
life was a small price to pay.
The Agreement has turned religion from being just a denominational and
theological matter into a permanent political identity. Meanwhile, the
compromises made to keep Sinn Fein-IRA in countenance, regardless of
all else, have effectively destroyed the centrist parties, the Ulster
Unionist Party and the SDLP.
Left standing are the two groups that have been the authors of so much
misery, bigotry and suffering down the decades: Ian Paisley's
Democratic Unionist Party, and of course, the political arm of the
IRA, Sinn Fein.
These are the thugs, killers and bigots who have dominated much of my
entire career as a journalist. I lived and worked in Belfast from 1971
to 1978, a period covered in my book, Watching the Door.
I arrived there as the divisions, long since established in what we
may only loosely call a society, were beginning to sink deep to its
very heart.
On the one hand, we had the Protestant fundamentalists, opposed to any
conciliation with the Catholic minority, led and inspired by the
Reverend - and by God, what a ludicrous title that is - Ian Paisley,
and on the other, we had the Provisional IRA, led in Derry by Martin
McGuinness. Thus the vice: between its teeth, a society about to be
crushed close to gibbering lunacy.
More than 3,700 people lost their lives in the ensuing madness. Those
of us who passed through the early, terrible days of the Troubles
carry with us memories that will never depart.
In my case, I see, every single day of my life, the face of Cpl Robert
Bankier, of the Royal Green Jackets. One night, I was eavesdropping on
the Army radio net when I heard a report of a relatively innocent
stoning incident in Cromac Square in Belfast: but to my riot-
accustomed ears it sounded more like the prelude to an IRA ambush. It
was: I heard the gunshots as I arrived, and discovered poor Cpl
Bankier dying beside his Land-Rover.
Over the coming months in 1971, under the weight of terrorist attack
and burdened by an idiotic Unionist government to which Westminster
had lent the British Army, Northern Ireland fell apart.
advertisement
If there was a terrorist barbarity in the moral repertoire, short of
suicide-bombing (though this would come later), the IRA tried it. If
there was an utterly counter-productive imbecility in the locker of
state folly, the Stormont government, with a dullard's witless fist,
reached for it - and usually with the backing of a government in
London whose ignorance of Ireland was as great as it was of
Azerbaijan.
It is important to remember that the IRA leaders did not want reform.
They were moral absolutists who sought just one thing: the British
out, by force of arms only, and the creation of an all-Ireland state,
with a Gaelic, Catholic ethos. No quarter could be given to such a
demand.
Furthermore, it was clear the Northern Ireland government - which was
not even the intellectual match of Basingstoke borough council - was
incapable of coping with the security crisis: yet London failed to
take charge. The icing on the cake was supplied by the British Army,
fresh from its native-bashing experiences in Aden, the lessons of
which it applied in generous measure upon Northern Ireland's skulls.
I have thought about this long and hard. You can go back in a time-
machine and suspend the Northern Ireland government before it
committed its worst blunders; you can teach the British Army manners;
you can reform the RUC. This is all possible.
But you can do nothing about the historical determination of the IRA
to have a war. And nor can you diminish the wide-spread Protestant
dislike of Catholics. These are irreducible truths which cannot be
removed from the equation by the fiat of mere will. Too many people in
Northern Ireland wanted a war for them to be denied it; and a war was
what they duly got.
And it has to be said, war was what the Republic of Ireland tolerated.
Even after the British Conservative Party had abandoned its strategic
and historic alliance with the Ulster Unionist Party, and insisted
that constitutional nationalists must be brought into government in
Northern Ireland, the Irish government continued to allow the IRA to
use its territory as an operational base.
No IRA atrocity - La Mon, in which a dozen Protestants were
incinerated alive by home-made napalm, or the murder of the British
ambassador and his secretary in Dublin, or the extermination of the
Mountbatten boat party of children and octogenarians, or the
Remembrance Sunday massacre at Enniskillen, or other bestialities too
numerous too list - was enough to make the Republic of Ireland destroy
the evil in its midst. It is a shocking thing to say about one's own
country: but it is the abominable truth.
And so we had a 25-year war, concluding with "informers" being drowned
during IRA interrogation in baths of cold water, and suicide bombers
blowing up soldiers (the difference from Iraq being their ignorance of
their fate). The war then came to a negotiated settlement between the
various forces which had foisted conflict on the Province.
Political power in Northern Ireland now effectively belongs to a
republican Tonton Macoute, and a semi-religious political sect. But it
is only power in the most etiolated sense, for these ugly, conjoined
sisters cannot actually govern.
and meanwhile, so-called "peace-lines", 12ft walls, have spread
through Belfast like fissures in a cracked plate. Ten years ago there
were 18 of them: now there are 40, in all, 13 miles long, keeping
Catholic and Protestant not merely physically apart, but blissfully
invisible to one another.
Moreover, most people have forgotten, or will not state, this central
truth. One way or another, and sooner or later, peace was a certainty.
The IRA capacity to strike had been diminished by a systematic
penetration of the terrorist structure by British agents.
Indeed, the obsequies upon the IRA's campaign could have been
pronounced at least a decade earlier, if the Irish Republic had shown
the necessary political courage to crush the IRA.
So the real achievement of the Belfast Agreement was to give a
political lifeline to a militarily doomed Sinn Fein-IRA. Its
leadership now has the power to decide whether to allow policing to
devolve to the Northern Ireland Executive (though this opera-bouffe
confection can agree on almost nothing).
Indeed, President McAleese told the Queen - in public, no less -that
Her Majesty would not be invited to Dublin until control of policing
had returned to Northern Ireland hands.
Apart from this being an astounding departure from both basic good
manners and presidential protocol - the Irish head of state no more
makes such public pronouncements on policy, while standing on what is
legally foreign soil, than does the British monarch - this has one
astonishing implication. It is that any possible invitation for the
Queen to visit Dublin is now entirely dependent upon the whim of the
Army council of the IRA.
In other words, relations between the two Anglophone states of the EU
are to be presided over by a group of failed terrorists. Like the ...
read more »
The Cross boys would have eaten the Rangers for light breakfast.
Those free state bastards would have collapsed at Hackballs Cross. I
infiltrated the "rangers" and discovered that they were a useless
bunch of alcohics scarely competent to prevent the conversion to dog
food of Bobby Nairac. Half of them suffered from syphillis. On a
good day a decent volunteer with a Barrett would have cleared the
lot...
Get real! Big words but no action as usual. The reality is that the
IRA got their sorry asses whipped because they didn't have what it
took to win a guerilla war. They had bad leadership and the whole
struggle was contaminated by gangsters.. What they did manage to do
was alienate half the western world with their brutality; in
particular their Irish American supporters who finally saw them for
what they were; not freedom fighters but thugs getting rich quick
through drug dealing, bank robbery and brutalizing their own people.

They deserved to fail and they did - in spades. They owe the people of
Ireland an apology for their actions and for smearing the reputation
of the old timers who believed and acted from genuine patriotism and
who didn't rip off their own struggle by grabbing whatever money they
could get their hands on. The IRA betrayed Ireland for the proverbial
thirty pieces of silver and any thinking Irish person knows that to be
the irrevocable truth. The IRA and its splinter movements committed
the one utterly unforgivable sin - they failed and that is why they
now belong to the garbage can of history..
mothed out
2008-03-31 17:38:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Highlander
Post by Whack all imperialists
Post by The Highlander
I rated this post as total shit. Unfortunately, the "total shit"
option is not supplied by Google, but by our resident mental nutcase.
Suck on this one Seumas!
Staring into Northern Ireland's moral abyss
By Kevin Myers
Last Updated: 2:23am BST 30/03/2008
As if almost to acknowledge the victory of nationalist Ireland in the
moral abyss that has been the Northern Ireland peace process, the
Queen visited Belfast on Good Friday, the nationalist anniversary of
the Agreement of 10 years ago.
For as with almost everything in the province, that accord has two
identities. Unionists call it the Belfast Agreement and commemorate it
on the date it occurred, April 10.
Catholic nationalists link it with the Holy Day with which it happened
to coincide, the moveable feast of Good Friday. And that, of course,
was the day the Government chose for the Queen's visit.
Moral abyss? How could it be a moral abyss? Did it not bring peace to
Northern Ireland? Well, no, not really. The IRA had been all but
defeated by 1994. Its ranks, including its army council, were riddled
with informers.
The South Armagh salient alone held out, inviolate, intact and
unbroken; but this was only possible because respective Dublin
governments refused to seal the border around the salient, or to
unleash their special forces, the Rangers, on the IRA: and the
Rangers, moreover, would have relished the job.
Instead, Sinn Fein-IRA was brought, bought and feted into the peace
process, its leaders welcomed by Tony Blair at Chequers, while their
rivals in the Catholic population, the constitutional SDLP, were all
but frozen out by both governments.
No tea and biscuits for peaceful nationalists; only those who had
blown the heart out of London, who had tortured people to death, who
had been responsible for starting and continuing a savage war, got the
hospitality, and in due course, a place in the power-sharing
Executive.
This is Machiavellian real-politik, is it not? Indeed it is: and the
electors of Northern Ireland soon recognised it for just that. They
are not fools: if extremes were being rewarded for being extreme, then
clearly, the extremes should be the people to vote for.
Moreover, even though the IRA continued to murder people after the
Agreement of 1998, and mounted intelligence operations against other
members of the Executive, even though its agents were tracking the
movements of former ministers for justice in Dublin, even though it
mounted the biggest bank robbery in UK history, it was never punished
by exclusion from power.
For the peace process was solely about ensuring the IRA never bombed
London again; and as far as MI5 - the prime movers of the peace
process - was concerned, the corruption of Northern Irish political
life was a small price to pay.
The Agreement has turned religion from being just a denominational and
theological matter into a permanent political identity. Meanwhile, the
compromises made to keep Sinn Fein-IRA in countenance, regardless of
all else, have effectively destroyed the centrist parties, the Ulster
Unionist Party and the SDLP.
Left standing are the two groups that have been the authors of so much
misery, bigotry and suffering down the decades: Ian Paisley's
Democratic Unionist Party, and of course, the political arm of the
IRA, Sinn Fein.
These are the thugs, killers and bigots who have dominated much of my
entire career as a journalist. I lived and worked in Belfast from 1971
to 1978, a period covered in my book, Watching the Door.
I arrived there as the divisions, long since established in what we
may only loosely call a society, were beginning to sink deep to its
very heart.
On the one hand, we had the Protestant fundamentalists, opposed to any
conciliation with the Catholic minority, led and inspired by the
Reverend - and by God, what a ludicrous title that is - Ian Paisley,
and on the other, we had the Provisional IRA, led in Derry by Martin
McGuinness. Thus the vice: between its teeth, a society about to be
crushed close to gibbering lunacy.
More than 3,700 people lost their lives in the ensuing madness. Those
of us who passed through the early, terrible days of the Troubles
carry with us memories that will never depart.
In my case, I see, every single day of my life, the face of Cpl Robert
Bankier, of the Royal Green Jackets. One night, I was eavesdropping on
the Army radio net when I heard a report of a relatively innocent
stoning incident in Cromac Square in Belfast: but to my riot-
accustomed ears it sounded more like the prelude to an IRA ambush. It
was: I heard the gunshots as I arrived, and discovered poor Cpl
Bankier dying beside his Land-Rover.
Over the coming months in 1971, under the weight of terrorist attack
and burdened by an idiotic Unionist government to which Westminster
had lent the British Army, Northern Ireland fell apart.
advertisement
If there was a terrorist barbarity in the moral repertoire, short of
suicide-bombing (though this would come later), the IRA tried it. If
there was an utterly counter-productive imbecility in the locker of
state folly, the Stormont government, with a dullard's witless fist,
reached for it - and usually with the backing of a government in
London whose ignorance of Ireland was as great as it was of
Azerbaijan.
It is important to remember that the IRA leaders did not want reform.
They were moral absolutists who sought just one thing: the British
out, by force of arms only, and the creation of an all-Ireland state,
with a Gaelic, Catholic ethos. No quarter could be given to such a
demand.
Furthermore, it was clear the Northern Ireland government - which was
not even the intellectual match of Basingstoke borough council - was
incapable of coping with the security crisis: yet London failed to
take charge. The icing on the cake was supplied by the British Army,
fresh from its native-bashing experiences in Aden, the lessons of
which it applied in generous measure upon Northern Ireland's skulls.
I have thought about this long and hard. You can go back in a time-
machine and suspend the Northern Ireland government before it
committed its worst blunders; you can teach the British Army manners;
you can reform the RUC. This is all possible.
But you can do nothing about the historical determination of the IRA
to have a war. And nor can you diminish the wide-spread Protestant
dislike of Catholics. These are irreducible truths which cannot be
removed from the equation by the fiat of mere will. Too many people in
Northern Ireland wanted a war for them to be denied it; and a war was
what they duly got.
And it has to be said, war was what the Republic of Ireland tolerated.
Even after the British Conservative Party had abandoned its strategic
and historic alliance with the Ulster Unionist Party, and insisted
that constitutional nationalists must be brought into government in
Northern Ireland, the Irish government continued to allow the IRA to
use its territory as an operational base.
No IRA atrocity - La Mon, in which a dozen Protestants were
incinerated alive by home-made napalm, or the murder of the British
ambassador and his secretary in Dublin, or the extermination of the
Mountbatten boat party of children and octogenarians, or the
Remembrance Sunday massacre at Enniskillen, or other bestialities too
numerous too list - was enough to make the Republic of Ireland destroy
the evil in its midst. It is a shocking thing to say about one's own
country: but it is the abominable truth.
And so we had a 25-year war, concluding with "informers" being drowned
during IRA interrogation in baths of cold water, and suicide bombers
blowing up soldiers (the difference from Iraq being their ignorance of
their fate). The war then came to a negotiated settlement between the
various forces which had foisted conflict on the Province.
Political power in Northern Ireland now effectively belongs to a
republican Tonton Macoute, and a semi-religious political sect. But it
is only power in the most etiolated sense, for these ugly, conjoined
sisters cannot actually govern.
and meanwhile, so-called "peace-lines", 12ft walls, have spread
through Belfast like fissures in a cracked plate. Ten years ago there
were 18 of them: now there are 40, in all, 13 miles long, keeping
Catholic and Protestant not merely physically apart, but blissfully
invisible to one another.
Moreover, most people have forgotten, or will not state, this central
truth. One way or another, and sooner or later, peace was a certainty.
The IRA capacity to strike had been diminished by a systematic
penetration of the terrorist structure by British agents.
Indeed, the obsequies upon the IRA's campaign could have been
pronounced at least a decade earlier, if the Irish Republic had shown
the necessary political courage to crush the IRA.
So the real achievement of the Belfast Agreement was to give a
political lifeline to a militarily doomed Sinn Fein-IRA. Its
leadership now has the power to decide whether to allow policing to
devolve to the Northern Ireland Executive (though this opera-bouffe
confection can agree on almost nothing).
Indeed, President McAleese told the Queen - in public, no less -that
Her Majesty would not be invited to Dublin until control of policing
had returned to Northern Ireland hands.
Apart from this being an astounding departure from both basic good
manners and presidential protocol - the Irish head of state no more
makes such public pronouncements on policy, while standing on what is
legally foreign soil, than does the British monarch - this has one
astonishing implication. It is that any possible invitation for the
Queen to visit Dublin is now entirely dependent upon the whim of the
Army council of the IRA.
In other words, relations between the two Anglophone states of the EU
are to be presided over by a group of failed terrorists. Like the ...
read more »
The Cross boys would have eaten the Rangers for light breakfast.
Those free state bastards would have collapsed at Hackballs Cross. I
infiltrated the "rangers" and discovered that they were a useless
bunch of alcohics scarely competent to prevent the conversion to dog
food of Bobby Nairac. Half of them suffered from syphillis. On a
good day a decent volunteer with a Barrett would have cleared the
lot...
Get real! Big words but no action as usual. The reality is that the
IRA got their sorry asses whipped because they didn't have what it
took to win a guerilla war. They had bad leadership and the whole
struggle was contaminated by gangsters.. What they did manage to do
was alienate half the western world with their brutality; in
particular their Irish American supporters who finally saw them for
what they were; not freedom fighters but thugs getting rich quick
through drug dealing, bank robbery and brutalizing their own people.
They deserved to fail and they did - in spades. They owe the people of
Ireland an apology for their actions and for smearing the reputation
of the old timers who believed and acted from genuine patriotism and
who didn't rip off their own struggle by grabbing whatever money they
could get their hands on. The IRA betrayed Ireland for the proverbial
thirty pieces of silver and any thinking Irish person knows that to be
the irrevocable truth. The IRA and its splinter movements committed
the one utterly unforgivable sin - they failed and that is why they
now belong to the garbage can of history..
Just because the armed struggle failed that doesn't mean Repubicans
can't pursue different means. For example, yelling abuse at the T.V.
in pubs when the Inglish are on the pitch, writing scatological
graffiti about Betty on the jacks walls; this and similar persistent
and doggedly executed operations are still freely followed by such
volunteers, operating frequently and without any effective containment
on both sides of the border. Seumas and his brigade will not to be put
down, or loose faith, or morale, or discipline on account of a few
harsh words from an oppressor like you. Corgis and poo may yet prove
to be the weak underbelly of Brit power, and the bogroll and yelling
outside the pub with a few pints on you - put it all together and
you've got to admit - this could be the angle that other freedom
fighters failed to put enough tactical emphasis on. And who are you to
judge the outcome of this policy til he's been at it for at least a
few more decades? Don't for one minute doubt that he has the
persistence and the will.
Westprog
2008-03-31 18:00:53 UTC
Permalink
mothed out wrote:
...
Post by mothed out
Just because the armed struggle failed that doesn't mean Repubicans
can't pursue different means. For example, yelling abuse at the T.V.
in pubs when the Inglish are on the pitch, writing scatological
graffiti about Betty on the jacks walls; this and similar persistent
and doggedly executed operations are still freely followed by such
volunteers, operating frequently and without any effective containment
on both sides of the border. Seumas and his brigade will not to be put
down, or loose faith, or morale, or discipline on account of a few
harsh words from an oppressor like you. Corgis and poo may yet prove
to be the weak underbelly of Brit power, and the bogroll and yelling
outside the pub with a few pints on you - put it all together and
you've got to admit - this could be the angle that other freedom
fighters failed to put enough tactical emphasis on. And who are you to
judge the outcome of this policy til he's been at it for at least a
few more decades? Don't for one minute doubt that he has the
persistence and the will.
If I didn't have a killfile I'd be tempted to give him a united Ireland just
to shut him up.
--
J/

SOTW: "Rat(tlesnake) In Mi Kitchen" - UB40

www.tolife.shadowcat.name
mothed out
2008-03-31 18:41:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Westprog
...
Post by mothed out
Just because the armed struggle failed that doesn't mean Repubicans
can't pursue different means. For example, yelling abuse at the T.V.
in pubs when the Inglish are on the pitch, writing scatological
graffiti about Betty on the jacks walls; this and similar persistent
and doggedly executed operations are still freely followed by such
volunteers, operating frequently and without any effective containment
on both sides of the border. Seumas and his brigade will not to be put
down, or loose faith, or morale, or discipline on account of a few
harsh words from an oppressor like you. Corgis and poo may yet prove
to be the weak underbelly of Brit power, and the bogroll and yelling
outside the pub with a few pints on you - put it all together and
you've got to admit - this could be the angle that other freedom
fighters failed to put enough tactical emphasis on. And who are you to
judge the outcome of this policy til he's been at it for at least a
few more decades? Don't for one minute doubt that he has the
persistence and the will.
If I didn't have a killfile I'd be tempted to give him a united Ireland just
to shut him up.
Easy for paper generals like Highlander to belittle the situation from
a safe distance. Players in this league can remain operative on little
more than a few pints and a kebab, taking to the streets just about
any night from about 8pm onwards, cash (including quite small loans)
permitting. They require very little in funds or training. It's a
headache for security planners in both jurisdictions, even assuming
the political will exists on the part of the various agencies and
their masters. Tell us how *you* would deal with it or stay shtum. Re-
angle big-screens to make them less visible from the bar? Marker-proof
paint around urinals? A ban on media coverage of Her Majesty's pets?
Realists know these are non-runners.
Post by Westprog
--
J/
SOTW: "Rat(tlesnake) In Mi Kitchen" - UB40
www.tolife.shadowcat.name
The Highlander
2008-04-01 23:58:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by mothed out
Post by The Highlander
Post by Whack all imperialists
Post by The Highlander
I rated this post as total shit. Unfortunately, the "total shit"
option is not supplied by Google, but by our resident mental nutcase.
Suck on this one Seumas!
Staring into Northern Ireland's moral abyss
By Kevin Myers
Last Updated: 2:23am BST 30/03/2008
As if almost to acknowledge the victory of nationalist Ireland in the
moral abyss that has been the Northern Ireland peace process, the
Queen visited Belfast on Good Friday, the nationalist anniversary of
the Agreement of 10 years ago.
For as with almost everything in the province, that accord has two
identities. Unionists call it the Belfast Agreement and commemorate it
on the date it occurred, April 10.
Catholic nationalists link it with the Holy Day with which it happened
to coincide, the moveable feast of Good Friday. And that, of course,
was the day the Government chose for the Queen's visit.
Moral abyss? How could it be a moral abyss? Did it not bring peace to
Northern Ireland? Well, no, not really. The IRA had been all but
defeated by 1994. Its ranks, including its army council, were riddled
with informers.
The South Armagh salient alone held out, inviolate, intact and
unbroken; but this was only possible because respective Dublin
governments refused to seal the border around the salient, or to
unleash their special forces, the Rangers, on the IRA: and the
Rangers, moreover, would have relished the job.
Instead, Sinn Fein-IRA was brought, bought and feted into the peace
process, its leaders welcomed by Tony Blair at Chequers, while their
rivals in the Catholic population, the constitutional SDLP, were all
but frozen out by both governments.
No tea and biscuits for peaceful nationalists; only those who had
blown the heart out of London, who had tortured people to death, who
had been responsible for starting and continuing a savage war, got the
hospitality, and in due course, a place in the power-sharing
Executive.
This is Machiavellian real-politik, is it not? Indeed it is: and the
electors of Northern Ireland soon recognised it for just that. They
are not fools: if extremes were being rewarded for being extreme, then
clearly, the extremes should be the people to vote for.
Moreover, even though the IRA continued to murder people after the
Agreement of 1998, and mounted intelligence operations against other
members of the Executive, even though its agents were tracking the
movements of former ministers for justice in Dublin, even though it
mounted the biggest bank robbery in UK history, it was never punished
by exclusion from power.
For the peace process was solely about ensuring the IRA never bombed
London again; and as far as MI5 - the prime movers of the peace
process - was concerned, the corruption of Northern Irish political
life was a small price to pay.
The Agreement has turned religion from being just a denominational and
theological matter into a permanent political identity. Meanwhile, the
compromises made to keep Sinn Fein-IRA in countenance, regardless of
all else, have effectively destroyed the centrist parties, the Ulster
Unionist Party and the SDLP.
Left standing are the two groups that have been the authors of so much
misery, bigotry and suffering down the decades: Ian Paisley's
Democratic Unionist Party, and of course, the political arm of the
IRA, Sinn Fein.
These are the thugs, killers and bigots who have dominated much of my
entire career as a journalist. I lived and worked in Belfast from 1971
to 1978, a period covered in my book, Watching the Door.
I arrived there as the divisions, long since established in what we
may only loosely call a society, were beginning to sink deep to its
very heart.
On the one hand, we had the Protestant fundamentalists, opposed to any
conciliation with the Catholic minority, led and inspired by the
Reverend - and by God, what a ludicrous title that is - Ian Paisley,
and on the other, we had the Provisional IRA, led in Derry by Martin
McGuinness. Thus the vice: between its teeth, a society about to be
crushed close to gibbering lunacy.
More than 3,700 people lost their lives in the ensuing madness. Those
of us who passed through the early, terrible days of the Troubles
carry with us memories that will never depart.
In my case, I see, every single day of my life, the face of Cpl Robert
Bankier, of the Royal Green Jackets. One night, I was eavesdropping on
the Army radio net when I heard a report of a relatively innocent
stoning incident in Cromac Square in Belfast: but to my riot-
accustomed ears it sounded more like the prelude to an IRA ambush. It
was: I heard the gunshots as I arrived, and discovered poor Cpl
Bankier dying beside his Land-Rover.
Over the coming months in 1971, under the weight of terrorist attack
and burdened by an idiotic Unionist government to which Westminster
had lent the British Army, Northern Ireland fell apart.
advertisement
If there was a terrorist barbarity in the moral repertoire, short of
suicide-bombing (though this would come later), the IRA tried it. If
there was an utterly counter-productive imbecility in the locker of
state folly, the Stormont government, with a dullard's witless fist,
reached for it - and usually with the backing of a government in
London whose ignorance of Ireland was as great as it was of
Azerbaijan.
It is important to remember that the IRA leaders did not want reform.
They were moral absolutists who sought just one thing: the British
out, by force of arms only, and the creation of an all-Ireland state,
with a Gaelic, Catholic ethos. No quarter could be given to such a
demand.
Furthermore, it was clear the Northern Ireland government - which was
not even the intellectual match of Basingstoke borough council - was
incapable of coping with the security crisis: yet London failed to
take charge. The icing on the cake was supplied by the British Army,
fresh from its native-bashing experiences in Aden, the lessons of
which it applied in generous measure upon Northern Ireland's skulls.
I have thought about this long and hard. You can go back in a time-
machine and suspend the Northern Ireland government before it
committed its worst blunders; you can teach the British Army manners;
you can reform the RUC. This is all possible.
But you can do nothing about the historical determination of the IRA
to have a war. And nor can you diminish the wide-spread Protestant
dislike of Catholics. These are irreducible truths which cannot be
removed from the equation by the fiat of mere will. Too many people in
Northern Ireland wanted a war for them to be denied it; and a war was
what they duly got.
And it has to be said, war was what the Republic of Ireland tolerated.
Even after the British Conservative Party had abandoned its strategic
and historic alliance with the Ulster Unionist Party, and insisted
that constitutional nationalists must be brought into government in
Northern Ireland, the Irish government continued to allow the IRA to
use its territory as an operational base.
No IRA atrocity - La Mon, in which a dozen Protestants were
incinerated alive by home-made napalm, or the murder of the British
ambassador and his secretary in Dublin, or the extermination of the
Mountbatten boat party of children and octogenarians, or the
Remembrance Sunday massacre at Enniskillen, or other bestialities too
numerous too list - was enough to make the Republic of Ireland destroy
the evil in its midst. It is a shocking thing to say about one's own
country: but it is the abominable truth.
And so we had a 25-year war, concluding with "informers" being drowned
during IRA interrogation in baths of cold water, and suicide bombers
blowing up soldiers (the difference from Iraq being their ignorance of
their fate). The war then came to a negotiated settlement between the
various forces which had foisted conflict on the Province.
Political power in Northern Ireland now effectively belongs to a
republican Tonton Macoute, and a semi-religious political sect. But it
is only power in the most etiolated sense, for these ugly, conjoined
sisters cannot actually govern.
and meanwhile, so-called "peace-lines", 12ft walls, have spread
through Belfast like fissures in a cracked plate. Ten years ago there
were 18 of them: now there are 40, in all, 13 miles long, keeping
Catholic and Protestant not merely physically apart, but blissfully
invisible to one another.
Moreover, most people have forgotten, or will not state, this central
truth. One way or another, and sooner or later, peace was a certainty.
The IRA capacity to strike had been diminished by a systematic
penetration of the terrorist structure by British agents.
Indeed, the obsequies upon the IRA's campaign could have been
pronounced at least a decade earlier, if the Irish Republic had shown
the necessary political courage to crush the IRA.
So the real achievement of the Belfast Agreement was to give a
political lifeline to a militarily doomed Sinn Fein-IRA. Its
leadership now has the power to decide whether to allow policing to
devolve to the Northern Ireland Executive (though this opera-bouffe
confection can agree on almost nothing).
Indeed, President McAleese told the Queen - in public, no less -that
Her Majesty would not be invited to Dublin until control of policing
had returned to Northern Ireland hands.
Apart from this being an astounding departure from both basic good
manners and presidential protocol - the Irish head of state no more
makes such public pronouncements on policy, while standing on what is
legally foreign soil, than does the British monarch - this has one
astonishing implication. It is that any possible invitation for the
Queen to visit Dublin is now entirely dependent upon the whim of the
Army council of the IRA.
In other words, relations between the two Anglophone states of the EU
are to be presided over by a group of failed terrorists. Like the ...
read more »
The Cross boys would have eaten the Rangers for light breakfast.
Those free state bastards would have collapsed at Hackballs Cross. I
infiltrated the "rangers" and discovered that they were a useless
bunch of alcohics scarely competent to prevent the conversion to dog
food of Bobby Nairac. Half of them suffered from syphillis. On a
good day a decent volunteer with a Barrett would have cleared the
lot...
Get real! Big words but no action as usual. The reality is that the
IRA got their sorry asses whipped because they didn't have what it
took to win a guerilla war. They had bad leadership and the whole
struggle was contaminated by gangsters.. What they did manage to do
was alienate half the western world with their brutality; in
particular their Irish American supporters who finally saw them for
what they were; not freedom fighters but thugs getting rich quick
through drug dealing, bank robbery and brutalizing their own people.
They deserved to fail and they did - in spades. They owe the people of
Ireland an apology for their actions and for smearing the reputation
of the old timers who believed and acted from genuine patriotism and
who didn't rip off their own struggle by grabbing whatever money they
could get their hands on. The IRA betrayed Ireland for the proverbial
thirty pieces of silver and any thinking Irish person knows that to be
the irrevocable truth. The IRA and its splinter movements committed
the one utterly unforgivable sin - they failed and that is why they
now belong to the garbage can of history..
Just because the armed struggle failed that doesn't mean Repubicans
can't pursue different means. For example, yelling abuse at the T.V.
in pubs when the Inglish are on the pitch, writing scatological
graffiti about Betty on the jacks walls; this and similar persistent
and doggedly executed operations are still freely followed by such
volunteers, operating frequently and without any effective containment
on both sides of the border. Seumas and his brigade will not to be put
down, or loose faith, or morale, or discipline on account of a few
harsh words from an oppressor like you. Corgis and poo may yet prove
to be the weak underbelly of Brit power, and the bogroll and yelling
outside the pub with a few pints on you - put it all together and
you've got to admit - this could be the angle that other freedom
fighters failed to put enough tactical emphasis on. And who are you to
judge the outcome of this policy til he's been at it for at least a
few more decades? Don't for one minute doubt that he has the
persistence and the will.
Yeah sure. The reality is that Ireland is Europe's Pakistan. Lots of
brave words, lots of blood spilled, but still no further ahead. At
least Ireland doesn't have a nuclear bomb, so we don't have to worry
about the crazies getting out of control. It is however worth
remembering that the English do have the nuclear bomb.

Lots of them.
conwaycaine
2008-04-01 04:50:25 UTC
Permalink
"The Highlander" <***@shaw.ca> wrote in message news:90211591-da74-4fe7-b49d-***@q27g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
<Snip>

Get real! Big words but no action as usual. The reality is that the
IRA got their sorry asses whipped because they didn't have what it
took to win a guerilla war. They had bad leadership and the whole
struggle was contaminated by gangsters.. What they did manage to do
was alienate half the western world with their brutality; in
particular their Irish American supporters who finally saw them for
what they were; not freedom fighters but thugs getting rich quick
through drug dealing, bank robbery and brutalizing their own people.

They deserved to fail and they did - in spades. They owe the people of
Ireland an apology for their actions and for smearing the reputation
of the old timers who believed and acted from genuine patriotism and
who didn't rip off their own struggle by grabbing whatever money they
could get their hands on. The IRA betrayed Ireland for the proverbial
thirty pieces of silver and any thinking Irish person knows that to be
the irrevocable truth. The IRA and its splinter movements committed
the one utterly unforgivable sin - they failed and that is why they
now belong to the garbage can of history..

******************

Highlander, are you baiting the Irish yet again?
Have you forgotten the international uproar that occurred the last time you
took pen in hand
As I recall, they ended up mining the straits between Ireland and Scotland
just to keep the massive flotilla of small leather boats from the shores of
Alba.

.
The Highlander
2008-04-02 01:06:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by conwaycaine
<Snip>
Get real! Big words but no action as usual. The reality is that the
IRA got their sorry asses whipped because they didn't have what it
took to win a guerilla war. They had bad leadership and the whole
struggle was contaminated by gangsters.. What they did manage to do
was alienate half the western world with their brutality; in
particular their Irish American supporters who finally saw them for
what they were; not freedom fighters but thugs getting rich quick
through drug dealing, bank robbery and brutalizing their own people.
They deserved to fail and they did - in spades. They owe the people of
Ireland an apology for their actions and for smearing the reputation
of the old timers who believed and acted from genuine patriotism and
who didn't rip off their own struggle by grabbing whatever money they
could get their hands on. The IRA betrayed Ireland for the proverbial
thirty pieces of silver and any thinking Irish person knows that to be
the irrevocable truth. The IRA and its splinter movements committed
the one utterly unforgivable sin - they failed and that is why they
now belong to the garbage can of history..
******************
Highlander, are you baiting the Irish yet again?
Have you forgotten the international uproar that occurred the last time you
took pen in hand
As I recall, they ended up mining the straits between Ireland and Scotland
just to keep the massive flotilla of small leather boats from the shores of
Alba.
.
I'm not baiting them; I'm pointing out that as a way to re-unite
Ireland, the IRA lost all moral authority the day it dragged Mrs. Jean
McConville out of her house in front of her ten weeping children and
murdered her for comforting a British soldier dying on her doorstep.

The IRA's offer to shoot those who stomped and knifed Robert McCartney
to death outside Magennis's bar, signed its own death warrant with
that offer, as Irish people finally saw the IRA for what it really
was, a band of psychopaths and thugs with a pack of moral backrupts in
charge. As Myers noted, the IRA is done; a reality underlined by the
outcry from the citizens of the Republic, who were outraged to think
that such atrocities were committed in their name and insisted that
Dublin take steps to halt the slaughter.
Whack all imperialists
2008-04-02 19:43:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Highlander
Post by conwaycaine
<Snip>
Get real!  Big words but no action as usual. The reality is that the
IRA got their sorry asses whipped because they didn't have what it
took to win a guerilla war. They had bad leadership and the whole
struggle was contaminated by gangsters.. What they did manage to do
was alienate half the western world with their brutality; in
particular their Irish American supporters who finally saw them for
what they were; not freedom fighters but thugs getting rich quick
through drug dealing, bank robbery and brutalizing their own people.
They deserved to fail and they did - in spades. They owe the people of
Ireland an apology for their actions and for smearing the reputation
of the old timers who believed and acted from genuine patriotism and
who didn't rip off their own struggle by grabbing whatever money they
could get their hands on. The IRA betrayed Ireland for the proverbial
thirty pieces of silver and any thinking Irish person knows that to be
the irrevocable truth. The IRA and its splinter movements committed
the one utterly unforgivable sin - they failed and that is why they
now belong to the garbage can of history..
******************
Highlander, are you baiting the Irish yet again?
Have you forgotten the international uproar that occurred the last time you
took pen in hand
As I recall, they ended up mining the straits between Ireland and Scotland
just to keep the massive flotilla of small leather boats from the shores of
Alba.
.
I'm not baiting them; I'm pointing out that as a way to re-unite
Ireland, the IRA lost all moral authority the day it dragged Mrs. Jean
McConville out of her house in front of her ten weeping children and
murdered her for comforting a British soldier dying on her doorstep.
The IRA's offer to shoot those who stomped and knifed Robert McCartney
to death outside Magennis's bar, signed its own death warrant with
that offer, as Irish people finally saw the IRA for what it really
was, a band of psychopaths and thugs with a pack of moral backrupts in
charge. As Myers noted, the IRA is done; a reality underlined by the
outcry from the citizens of the Republic, who were outraged to think
that such atrocities were committed in their name and insisted that
Dublin take steps to halt the slaughter.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Go fuck Betty
conwaycaine
2008-04-02 19:56:45 UTC
Permalink
<Snip>
Post by The Highlander
Post by conwaycaine
Highlander, are you baiting the Irish yet again?
Have you forgotten the international uproar that occurred the last time you
took pen in hand
As I recall, they ended up mining the straits between Ireland and Scotland
just to keep the massive flotilla of small leather boats from the shores of
Alba.
.
I'm not baiting them; I'm pointing out that as a way to re-unite
Ireland, the IRA lost all moral authority the day it dragged Mrs. Jean
McConville out of her house in front of her ten weeping children and
murdered her for comforting a British soldier dying on her doorstep.
The IRA's offer to shoot those who stomped and knifed Robert McCartney
to death outside Magennis's bar, signed its own death warrant with
that offer, as Irish people finally saw the IRA for what it really
was, a band of psychopaths and thugs with a pack of moral backrupts in
charge. As Myers noted, the IRA is done; a reality underlined by the
outcry from the citizens of the Republic, who were outraged to think
that such atrocities were committed in their name and insisted that
Dublin take steps to halt the slaughter.
It's a sad and bloody land, the North of Ireland.
With enough guilt and recriminations to go around on both sides.
I would that maybe, finally, the bloodshed will cease and the people there
would know peace.
Feck all sassanaigh
2008-04-03 09:50:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by conwaycaine
<Snip>
Post by The Highlander
Post by conwaycaine
Highlander, are you baiting the Irish yet again?
Have you forgotten the international uproar that occurred the last time you
took pen in hand
As I recall, they ended up mining the straits between Ireland and Scotland
just to keep the massive flotilla of small leather boats from the shores of
Alba.
.
I'm not baiting them; I'm pointing out that as a way to re-unite
Ireland, the IRA lost all moral authority the day it dragged Mrs. Jean
McConville out of her house in front of her ten weeping children and
murdered her for comforting a British soldier dying on her doorstep.
The IRA's offer to shoot those who stomped and knifed Robert McCartney
to death outside Magennis's bar, signed its own death warrant with
that offer, as Irish people finally saw the IRA for what it really
was, a band of psychopaths and thugs with a pack of moral backrupts in
charge. As Myers noted, the IRA is done; a reality underlined by the
outcry from the citizens of the Republic, who were outraged to think
that such atrocities were committed in their name and insisted that
Dublin take steps to halt the slaughter.
It's a sad and bloody land, the North of Ireland.
With enough guilt and recriminations to go around on both sides.
I would that maybe, finally, the bloodshed will cease and the people there
would know peace.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Well spoken words - this outcome will likely arise when external
forces of occupation and aggression move or are forced to move on to
their next target - perhaps Iran?
conwaycaine
2008-04-03 15:29:34 UTC
Permalink
"Feck all sassanaigh" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message news:09c8364a-1d2b-4f75-9ec1-***@i7g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Apr 2, 8:56 pm, "conwaycaine" <***@bellsouth.net> wrote:
<Snip>
Post by conwaycaine
It's a sad and bloody land, the North of Ireland.
With enough guilt and recriminations to go around on both sides.
I would that maybe, finally, the bloodshed will cease and the people there
would know peace.- Hide quoted text -
Well spoken words - this outcome will likely arise when external
forces of occupation and aggression move or are forced to move on to
their next target - perhaps Iran?

**********************

From what I've gathered, having listened to these Scots for several years,
the Brits would like nothing better that to get the hell out and leave the
Six Counties to their own devices.
It's just that they haven't figured out a way to do that and avoid a civil
bloodbath in Uladh.
So they hang around like uninvited guests at a wedding, not sure of what to
do next.
But it is ending, I do believe it is ending.
After a thousand years or more of destruction, misery, and horror, it surely
is time to end it.


.
Someone else
2008-04-04 09:02:05 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 3 Apr 2008 11:29:34 -0400, "conwaycaine"
Post by conwaycaine
<Snip>
Post by conwaycaine
It's a sad and bloody land, the North of Ireland.
With enough guilt and recriminations to go around on both sides.
I would that maybe, finally, the bloodshed will cease and the people there
would know peace.- Hide quoted text -
Well spoken words - this outcome will likely arise when external
forces of occupation and aggression move or are forced to move on to
their next target - perhaps Iran?
**********************
From what I've gathered, having listened to these Scots for several years,
the Brits would like nothing better that to get the hell out and leave the
Six Counties to their own devices.
It's just that they haven't figured out a way to do that and avoid a civil
bloodbath in Uladh.
So they hang around like uninvited guests at a wedding, not sure of what to
do next.
But it is ending, I do believe it is ending.
I likewise believe that...judging by various relatively recent
events...such as McGuinness and Paisley having a practical working
arrangement...peace continues to break out.

Lets have a few random acts of kindness.

Nik

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The Highlander
2008-04-04 18:06:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Someone else
On Thu, 3 Apr 2008 11:29:34 -0400, "conwaycaine"
Post by conwaycaine
<Snip>
Post by conwaycaine
It's a sad and bloody land, the North of Ireland.
With enough guilt and recriminations to go around on both sides.
I would that maybe, finally, the bloodshed will cease and the people there
would know peace.- Hide quoted text -
Well spoken words - this outcome will likely arise when external
forces of occupation and aggression move or are forced to move on to
their next target - perhaps Iran?
**********************
From what I've gathered, having listened to these Scots for several years,
the Brits would like nothing better that to get the hell out and leave the
Six Counties to their own devices.
It's just that they haven't figured out a way to do that and avoid a civil
bloodbath in Uladh.
So they hang around like uninvited guests at a wedding, not sure of what to
do next.
But it is ending, I do believe it is ending.
I likewise believe that...judging by various relatively recent
events...such as McGuinness and Paisley having a practical working
arrangement...peace continues to break out.
Lets have a few random acts of kindness.
Nik
I suggested some months ago that a national peace and reconcilation
gathering like that which proved to be semi-successful in South Africa
- the police mostly denied any wrong-doing - could be a start. The
fact is that no real plan for acknowledging that both Catholics and
Protestants have an absolute right to be treated equally in the
province of their birth or adoption exists and that public safety will
be a priority.
conwaycaine
2008-04-04 18:33:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Someone else
On Thu, 3 Apr 2008 11:29:34 -0400, "conwaycaine"
Post by conwaycaine
<Snip>
Post by conwaycaine
It's a sad and bloody land, the North of Ireland.
With enough guilt and recriminations to go around on both sides.
I would that maybe, finally, the bloodshed will cease and the people there
would know peace.- Hide quoted text -
Well spoken words - this outcome will likely arise when external
forces of occupation and aggression move or are forced to move on to
their next target - perhaps Iran?
**********************
From what I've gathered, having listened to these Scots for several years,
the Brits would like nothing better that to get the hell out and leave the
Six Counties to their own devices.
It's just that they haven't figured out a way to do that and avoid a civil
bloodbath in Uladh.
So they hang around like uninvited guests at a wedding, not sure of what to
do next.
But it is ending, I do believe it is ending.
I likewise believe that...judging by various relatively recent
events...such as McGuinness and Paisley having a practical working
arrangement...peace continues to break out.
Lets have a few random acts of kindness.
The real hoot will be, after a few generations come and go of course, the
kids asking each other what the fuss was all about.
Once the auld gits pass on, the young'uns should get along famously.
Or so I believe.
Whack all imperialists
2008-04-04 21:37:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by conwaycaine
Post by Someone else
On Thu, 3 Apr 2008 11:29:34 -0400, "conwaycaine"
Post by conwaycaine
<Snip>
Post by conwaycaine
It's a sad and bloody land, the North of Ireland.
With enough guilt and recriminations to go around on both sides.
I would that maybe, finally, the bloodshed will cease and the people there
would know peace.- Hide quoted text -
Well spoken words - this outcome will likely arise when external
forces of occupation and aggression move or are forced to move on to
their next target - perhaps Iran?
**********************
From what I've gathered, having listened to these Scots for several years,
the Brits would like nothing better that to get the hell out and leave the
Six Counties to their own devices.
It's just that they haven't figured out a way to do that and avoid a civil
bloodbath in Uladh.
So they hang around like uninvited guests at a wedding, not sure of what to
do next.
But it is ending, I do believe it is ending.
I likewise believe that...judging by various relatively recent
events...such as McGuinness and Paisley having a practical working
arrangement...peace continues to break out.
Lets have a few random acts of kindness.
The real hoot will be, after a few generations come and go of course, the
kids asking each other  what the fuss was all about.
Once the auld gits pass on, the young'uns should get along famously.
Or so I believe.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
And God bless both your good intentions and the outcome you well
predict - when the Goliath of military imperialism takes its next
venture away from Ireland then good luck to us all. In the meantime
our volunteers will remain resolute and their courage will at all
times defeat the cowardly scum.
conwaycaine
2008-04-05 14:09:30 UTC
Permalink
"Whack all imperialists" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message news:2178e07c-4afc-4208-8d82-***@a9g2000prl.googlegroups.com...
On Apr 4, 7:33 pm, "conwaycaine" <***@bellsouth.net> wrote:
<Snip>
Post by conwaycaine
The real hoot will be, after a few generations come and go of course, the
kids asking each other what the fuss was all about.
Once the auld gits pass on, the young'uns should get along famously.
Or so I believe.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
And God bless both your good intentions and the outcome you well
predict - when the Goliath of military imperialism takes its next
venture away from Ireland then good luck to us all. In the meantime
our volunteers will remain resolute and their courage will at all
times defeat the cowardly scum.

***************************

I was thinking the other day that Irish resistance to British rule has been
the inspiration for many "Colonial" countries to throw off the yoke.
The Irish proved it could be done.
The end of the Second World War provided the opportunities.
And the empire crumbled.
Whack all imperialists
2008-04-05 18:57:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by conwaycaine
<Snip>
Post by conwaycaine
The real hoot will be, after a few generations come and go of course, the
kids asking each other what the fuss was all about.
Once the auld gits pass on, the young'uns should get along famously.
Or so I believe.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
And God bless both your good intentions and the outcome you well
predict - when the Goliath of military imperialism takes its next
venture away from Ireland then good luck to us all.  In the meantime
our volunteers will remain resolute and their courage will at all
times defeat the cowardly scum.
***************************
I was thinking the other day that Irish resistance to British rule has been
the inspiration for many "Colonial" countries to throw off the yoke.
The Irish proved it could be done.
The end of the Second World War provided the opportunities.
And the empire crumbled.
Well made points - and thank you both for the refusal to allow cowarly
scum describe Irish republicans in less than a fair light
Someone else
2008-04-05 00:31:08 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 4 Apr 2008 14:33:04 -0400, "conwaycaine"
Post by conwaycaine
Post by Someone else
On Thu, 3 Apr 2008 11:29:34 -0400, "conwaycaine"
Post by conwaycaine
<Snip>
Post by conwaycaine
It's a sad and bloody land, the North of Ireland.
With enough guilt and recriminations to go around on both sides.
I would that maybe, finally, the bloodshed will cease and the people there
would know peace.- Hide quoted text -
Well spoken words - this outcome will likely arise when external
forces of occupation and aggression move or are forced to move on to
their next target - perhaps Iran?
**********************
From what I've gathered, having listened to these Scots for several years,
the Brits would like nothing better that to get the hell out and leave the
Six Counties to their own devices.
It's just that they haven't figured out a way to do that and avoid a civil
bloodbath in Uladh.
So they hang around like uninvited guests at a wedding, not sure of what to
do next.
But it is ending, I do believe it is ending.
I likewise believe that...judging by various relatively recent
events...such as McGuinness and Paisley having a practical working
arrangement...peace continues to break out.
Lets have a few random acts of kindness.
The real hoot will be, after a few generations come and go of course, the
kids asking each other what the fuss was all about.
Once the auld gits pass on, the young'uns should get along famously.
Or so I believe.
I hope so.

Nik

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conwaycaine
2008-04-05 14:11:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Someone else
On Fri, 4 Apr 2008 14:33:04 -0400, "conwaycaine"
Post by conwaycaine
Post by Someone else
On Thu, 3 Apr 2008 11:29:34 -0400, "conwaycaine"
Post by conwaycaine
<Snip>
Post by conwaycaine
It's a sad and bloody land, the North of Ireland.
With enough guilt and recriminations to go around on both sides.
I would that maybe, finally, the bloodshed will cease and the people there
would know peace.- Hide quoted text -
Well spoken words - this outcome will likely arise when external
forces of occupation and aggression move or are forced to move on to
their next target - perhaps Iran?
**********************
From what I've gathered, having listened to these Scots for several years,
the Brits would like nothing better that to get the hell out and leave the
Six Counties to their own devices.
It's just that they haven't figured out a way to do that and avoid a civil
bloodbath in Uladh.
So they hang around like uninvited guests at a wedding, not sure of what to
do next.
But it is ending, I do believe it is ending.
I likewise believe that...judging by various relatively recent
events...such as McGuinness and Paisley having a practical working
arrangement...peace continues to break out.
Lets have a few random acts of kindness.
The real hoot will be, after a few generations come and go of course, the
kids asking each other what the fuss was all about.
Once the auld gits pass on, the young'uns should get along famously.
Or so I believe.
I hope so.
Do you remember all the dire predictions made about the future of British
subjects in Ireland once the Free State was formed?
Never happened.
Someone else
2008-04-05 22:47:52 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 5 Apr 2008 10:11:04 -0400, "conwaycaine"
Post by conwaycaine
Post by Someone else
On Fri, 4 Apr 2008 14:33:04 -0400, "conwaycaine"
Post by conwaycaine
Post by Someone else
On Thu, 3 Apr 2008 11:29:34 -0400, "conwaycaine"
Post by conwaycaine
<Snip>
Post by conwaycaine
It's a sad and bloody land, the North of Ireland.
With enough guilt and recriminations to go around on both sides.
I would that maybe, finally, the bloodshed will cease and the people there
would know peace.- Hide quoted text -
Well spoken words - this outcome will likely arise when external
forces of occupation and aggression move or are forced to move on to
their next target - perhaps Iran?
**********************
From what I've gathered, having listened to these Scots for several years,
the Brits would like nothing better that to get the hell out and leave the
Six Counties to their own devices.
It's just that they haven't figured out a way to do that and avoid a civil
bloodbath in Uladh.
So they hang around like uninvited guests at a wedding, not sure of what to
do next.
But it is ending, I do believe it is ending.
I likewise believe that...judging by various relatively recent
events...such as McGuinness and Paisley having a practical working
arrangement...peace continues to break out.
Lets have a few random acts of kindness.
The real hoot will be, after a few generations come and go of course, the
kids asking each other what the fuss was all about.
Once the auld gits pass on, the young'uns should get along famously.
Or so I believe.
I hope so.
Do you remember all the dire predictions made about the future of British
subjects in Ireland once the Free State was formed?
No, I'm too young.
Post by conwaycaine
Never happened.
Of course not, c.f.

"The Republic guarantees religious and civil liberty, equal rights and
equal opportunities to all its citizens, and declares its resolve to
pursue the happiness and prosperity of the whole nation and of all its
parts, cherishing all the children of the nation equally..."

Is mise le meas
Nik O'Kiwi

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----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
conwaycaine
2008-04-06 15:56:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Someone else
On Sat, 5 Apr 2008 10:11:04 -0400, "conwaycaine"
<Snip>
Post by Someone else
Post by conwaycaine
Do you remember all the dire predictions made about the future of British
subjects in Ireland once the Free State was formed?
No, I'm too young.
Post by conwaycaine
Never happened.
Of course not, c.f.
"The Republic guarantees religious and civil liberty, equal rights and
equal opportunities to all its citizens, and declares its resolve to
pursue the happiness and prosperity of the whole nation and of all its
parts, cherishing all the children of the nation equally..."
The detractors have attempted to maintain there were reprisals.
If there were, they were few and far between, a point seemingly lost on Big
Ian and his alarmists pals.
Oh well, those times are over and done with.
Whack all imperialists
2008-05-01 23:28:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by conwaycaine
<Snip>
Post by Someone else
Post by conwaycaine
Do you remember all the dire predictions made about the future of British
subjects in Ireland once the Free State was formed?
No, I'm too young.
Post by conwaycaine
Never happened.
Of course not, c.f.
"The Republic guarantees religious and civil liberty, equal rights and
equal opportunities to all its citizens, and declares its resolve to
pursue the happiness and prosperity of the whole nation and of all its
parts, cherishing all the children of the nation equally..."
The detractors have attempted to maintain there were reprisals.
If there were, they were few and far between, a point seemingly lost on Big
Ian and his alarmists pals.
Oh well, those times are over and done with.
There were indeed unspeakable and unjustifiable malicious actions
perpetrated by both people of republican and unionist dispositions.
All such actions were and remain intrinsically evil. The people of
Ireland will one day accept their myriad cultures and rejoice in
respect for Bushmills
conwaycaine
2008-05-02 18:37:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Someone else
10:11:04 -0400, "conwaycaine"
<Snip>
Post by Someone else
Post by conwaycaine
Do you remember all the dire predictions made about the future of British
subjects in Ireland once the Free State was formed?
No, I'm too young.
Post by conwaycaine
Never happened.
Of course not, c.f.
"The Republic guarantees religious and civil liberty, equal rights and
equal opportunities to all its citizens, and declares its resolve to
pursue the happiness and prosperity of the whole nation and of all its
parts, cherishing all the children of the nation equally..."
The detractors have attempted to maintain there were reprisals.
If there were, they were few and far between, a point seemingly lost on Big
Ian and his alarmists pals.
Oh well, those times are over and done with.
There were indeed unspeakable and unjustifiable malicious actions
perpetrated by both people of republican and unionist dispositions.
All such actions were and remain intrinsically evil. The people of
Ireland will one day accept their myriad cultures and rejoice in
respect for Bushmills
******************

But only "Black".
The other stuff is for export only.
Whack all imperialists
2008-05-02 18:45:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Whack all imperialists
Post by Someone else
10:11:04 -0400, "conwaycaine"
<Snip>
Post by Someone else
Post by conwaycaine
Do you remember all the dire predictions made about the future of British
subjects in Ireland once the Free State was formed?
No, I'm too young.
Post by conwaycaine
Never happened.
Of course not, c.f.
"The Republic guarantees religious and civil liberty, equal rights and
equal opportunities to all its citizens, and declares its resolve to
pursue the happiness and prosperity of the whole nation and of all its
parts, cherishing all the children of the nation equally..."
The detractors have attempted to maintain there were reprisals.
If there were, they were few and far between, a point seemingly lost on Big
Ian and his alarmists pals.
Oh well, those times are over and done with.
There were indeed unspeakable and unjustifiable malicious actions
perpetrated by both people of republican and unionist dispositions.
All such actions were and remain intrinsically evil.  The people of
Ireland will one day accept their myriad cultures and rejoice in
respect for Bushmills
******************
But only "Black".
The other stuff is for export only.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Otherwise called "Shirley Bassey" (for Black Bush)...
conwaycaine
2008-05-03 13:40:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Whack all imperialists
Post by Someone else
10:11:04 -0400, "conwaycaine"
<Snip>
Post by Someone else
Post by conwaycaine
Do you remember all the dire predictions made about the future of British
subjects in Ireland once the Free State was formed?
No, I'm too young.
Post by conwaycaine
Never happened.
Of course not, c.f.
"The Republic guarantees religious and civil liberty, equal rights and
equal opportunities to all its citizens, and declares its resolve to
pursue the happiness and prosperity of the whole nation and of all its
parts, cherishing all the children of the nation equally..."
The detractors have attempted to maintain there were reprisals.
If there were, they were few and far between, a point seemingly lost on Big
Ian and his alarmists pals.
Oh well, those times are over and done with.
There were indeed unspeakable and unjustifiable malicious actions
perpetrated by both people of republican and unionist dispositions.
All such actions were and remain intrinsically evil. The people of
Ireland will one day accept their myriad cultures and rejoice in
respect for Bushmills
******************
But only "Black".
The other stuff is for export only.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Otherwise called "Shirley Bassey" (for Black Bush)...

******************

Are they still giving a small cask of the very water Bushmill's is made from
with each and every case?

Jeffrey Hamilton
2008-04-06 21:12:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by conwaycaine
Post by Someone else
On Thu, 3 Apr 2008 11:29:34 -0400, "conwaycaine"
Post by conwaycaine
<Snip>
Post by conwaycaine
It's a sad and bloody land, the North of Ireland.
With enough guilt and recriminations to go around on both sides.
I would that maybe, finally, the bloodshed will cease and the people there
would know peace.- Hide quoted text -
Well spoken words - this outcome will likely arise when external
forces of occupation and aggression move or are forced to move on to
their next target - perhaps Iran?
**********************
From what I've gathered, having listened to these Scots for several years,
the Brits would like nothing better that to get the hell out and leave the
Six Counties to their own devices.
It's just that they haven't figured out a way to do that and avoid a civil
bloodbath in Uladh.
So they hang around like uninvited guests at a wedding, not sure of what to
do next.
But it is ending, I do believe it is ending.
I likewise believe that...judging by various relatively recent
events...such as McGuinness and Paisley having a practical working
arrangement...peace continues to break out.
Lets have a few random acts of kindness.
The real hoot will be, after a few generations come and go of course, the
kids asking each other what the fuss was all about.
Once the auld gits pass on, the young'uns should get along famously.
Or so I believe.
Well of course they will, just look at how they're doing now. Say no more.

cheers.....Jeff
mothed out
2008-04-04 11:33:42 UTC
Permalink
.
Post by conwaycaine
After a thousand years or more of destruction, misery, and horror, it surely
is time to end it.
Well done for remembering the Viking invasions, though i think you can
go even beyond a thousand to encompass that.
conwaycaine
2008-04-04 18:37:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by mothed out
.
Post by conwaycaine
After a thousand years or more of destruction, misery, and horror, it surely
is time to end it.
Well done for remembering the Viking invasions, though i think you can
go even beyond a thousand to encompass that.
Oh yes.
Especially if you consider the invasions of the Children of Dana, the
Milesians, the Firbolgs, and others that from time to time invaded and/or
migrated to Ireland.
Someone else
2008-04-04 08:59:50 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 2 Apr 2008 15:56:45 -0400, "conwaycaine"
Post by conwaycaine
<Snip>
Post by The Highlander
Post by conwaycaine
Highlander, are you baiting the Irish yet again?
Have you forgotten the international uproar that occurred the last time you
took pen in hand
As I recall, they ended up mining the straits between Ireland and Scotland
just to keep the massive flotilla of small leather boats from the shores of
Alba.
.
I'm not baiting them; I'm pointing out that as a way to re-unite
Ireland, the IRA lost all moral authority the day it dragged Mrs. Jean
McConville out of her house in front of her ten weeping children and
murdered her for comforting a British soldier dying on her doorstep.
The IRA's offer to shoot those who stomped and knifed Robert McCartney
to death outside Magennis's bar, signed its own death warrant with
that offer, as Irish people finally saw the IRA for what it really
was, a band of psychopaths and thugs with a pack of moral backrupts in
charge. As Myers noted, the IRA is done; a reality underlined by the
outcry from the citizens of the Republic, who were outraged to think
that such atrocities were committed in their name and insisted that
Dublin take steps to halt the slaughter.
It's a sad and bloody land, the North of Ireland.
With enough guilt and recriminations to go around on both sides.
I would that maybe, finally, the bloodshed will cease and the people there
would know peace.
That's the way its seeming at the moment...lets all continue the
momentum in that direction then eh Highlander?

Nik

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
conwaycaine
2008-04-04 18:29:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Someone else
On Wed, 2 Apr 2008 15:56:45 -0400, "conwaycaine"
Post by conwaycaine
<Snip>
Post by The Highlander
Post by conwaycaine
Highlander, are you baiting the Irish yet again?
Have you forgotten the international uproar that occurred the last time you
took pen in hand
As I recall, they ended up mining the straits between Ireland and Scotland
just to keep the massive flotilla of small leather boats from the
shores
of
Alba.
.
I'm not baiting them; I'm pointing out that as a way to re-unite
Ireland, the IRA lost all moral authority the day it dragged Mrs. Jean
McConville out of her house in front of her ten weeping children and
murdered her for comforting a British soldier dying on her doorstep.
The IRA's offer to shoot those who stomped and knifed Robert McCartney
to death outside Magennis's bar, signed its own death warrant with
that offer, as Irish people finally saw the IRA for what it really
was, a band of psychopaths and thugs with a pack of moral backrupts in
charge. As Myers noted, the IRA is done; a reality underlined by the
outcry from the citizens of the Republic, who were outraged to think
that such atrocities were committed in their name and insisted that
Dublin take steps to halt the slaughter.
It's a sad and bloody land, the North of Ireland.
With enough guilt and recriminations to go around on both sides.
I would that maybe, finally, the bloodshed will cease and the people there
would know peace.
That's the way its seeming at the moment...lets all continue the
momentum in that direction then eh Highlander?
So it seems. So it seems.
Even Big Ian is making peace-like croaks.
The UK must have made him an offer he couldn't refuse.
Someone else
2008-04-05 00:32:55 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 4 Apr 2008 14:29:18 -0400, "conwaycaine"
Post by conwaycaine
Post by Someone else
On Wed, 2 Apr 2008 15:56:45 -0400, "conwaycaine"
Post by conwaycaine
<Snip>
Post by The Highlander
Post by conwaycaine
Highlander, are you baiting the Irish yet again?
Have you forgotten the international uproar that occurred the last time you
took pen in hand
As I recall, they ended up mining the straits between Ireland and Scotland
just to keep the massive flotilla of small leather boats from the
shores
of
Alba.
.
I'm not baiting them; I'm pointing out that as a way to re-unite
Ireland, the IRA lost all moral authority the day it dragged Mrs. Jean
McConville out of her house in front of her ten weeping children and
murdered her for comforting a British soldier dying on her doorstep.
The IRA's offer to shoot those who stomped and knifed Robert McCartney
to death outside Magennis's bar, signed its own death warrant with
that offer, as Irish people finally saw the IRA for what it really
was, a band of psychopaths and thugs with a pack of moral backrupts in
charge. As Myers noted, the IRA is done; a reality underlined by the
outcry from the citizens of the Republic, who were outraged to think
that such atrocities were committed in their name and insisted that
Dublin take steps to halt the slaughter.
It's a sad and bloody land, the North of Ireland.
With enough guilt and recriminations to go around on both sides.
I would that maybe, finally, the bloodshed will cease and the people there
would know peace.
That's the way its seeming at the moment...lets all continue the
momentum in that direction then eh Highlander?
So it seems. So it seems.
Even Big Ian is making peace-like croaks.
The UK must have made him an offer he couldn't refuse.
That and the fact that he can't have too much longer to live...he's
going to be accountable to his maker. Something which, I'm sure, is
playing on his mind these days.

Nik

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
conwaycaine
2008-04-05 14:06:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Someone else
On Fri, 4 Apr 2008 14:29:18 -0400, "conwaycaine"
Post by conwaycaine
Post by Someone else
On Wed, 2 Apr 2008 15:56:45 -0400, "conwaycaine"
Post by conwaycaine
<Snip>
Post by The Highlander
Post by conwaycaine
Highlander, are you baiting the Irish yet again?
Have you forgotten the international uproar that occurred the last
time
you
took pen in hand
As I recall, they ended up mining the straits between Ireland and Scotland
just to keep the massive flotilla of small leather boats from the
shores
of
Alba.
.
I'm not baiting them; I'm pointing out that as a way to re-unite
Ireland, the IRA lost all moral authority the day it dragged Mrs. Jean
McConville out of her house in front of her ten weeping children and
murdered her for comforting a British soldier dying on her doorstep.
The IRA's offer to shoot those who stomped and knifed Robert McCartney
to death outside Magennis's bar, signed its own death warrant with
that offer, as Irish people finally saw the IRA for what it really
was, a band of psychopaths and thugs with a pack of moral backrupts in
charge. As Myers noted, the IRA is done; a reality underlined by the
outcry from the citizens of the Republic, who were outraged to think
that such atrocities were committed in their name and insisted that
Dublin take steps to halt the slaughter.
It's a sad and bloody land, the North of Ireland.
With enough guilt and recriminations to go around on both sides.
I would that maybe, finally, the bloodshed will cease and the people there
would know peace.
That's the way its seeming at the moment...lets all continue the
momentum in that direction then eh Highlander?
So it seems. So it seems.
Even Big Ian is making peace-like croaks.
The UK must have made him an offer he couldn't refuse.
That and the fact that he can't have too much longer to live...he's
going to be accountable to his maker. Something which, I'm sure, is
playing on his mind these days.
Thus age mellows us all...............
The Highlander
2008-03-31 14:33:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Whack all imperialists
Post by The Highlander
I rated this post as total shit. Unfortunately, the "total shit"
option is not supplied by Google, but by our resident mental nutcase.
Suck on this one Seumas!
Staring into Northern Ireland's moral abyss
By Kevin Myers
Last Updated: 2:23am BST 30/03/2008
As if almost to acknowledge the victory of nationalist Ireland in the
moral abyss that has been the Northern Ireland peace process, the
Queen visited Belfast on Good Friday, the nationalist anniversary of
the Agreement of 10 years ago.
For as with almost everything in the province, that accord has two
identities. Unionists call it the Belfast Agreement and commemorate it
on the date it occurred, April 10.
Catholic nationalists link it with the Holy Day with which it happened
to coincide, the moveable feast of Good Friday. And that, of course,
was the day the Government chose for the Queen's visit.
Moral abyss? How could it be a moral abyss? Did it not bring peace to
Northern Ireland? Well, no, not really. The IRA had been all but
defeated by 1994. Its ranks, including its army council, were riddled
with informers.
The South Armagh salient alone held out, inviolate, intact and
unbroken; but this was only possible because respective Dublin
governments refused to seal the border around the salient, or to
unleash their special forces, the Rangers, on the IRA: and the
Rangers, moreover, would have relished the job.
Instead, Sinn Fein-IRA was brought, bought and feted into the peace
process, its leaders welcomed by Tony Blair at Chequers, while their
rivals in the Catholic population, the constitutional SDLP, were all
but frozen out by both governments.
No tea and biscuits for peaceful nationalists; only those who had
blown the heart out of London, who had tortured people to death, who
had been responsible for starting and continuing a savage war, got the
hospitality, and in due course, a place in the power-sharing
Executive.
This is Machiavellian real-politik, is it not? Indeed it is: and the
electors of Northern Ireland soon recognised it for just that. They
are not fools: if extremes were being rewarded for being extreme, then
clearly, the extremes should be the people to vote for.
Moreover, even though the IRA continued to murder people after the
Agreement of 1998, and mounted intelligence operations against other
members of the Executive, even though its agents were tracking the
movements of former ministers for justice in Dublin, even though it
mounted the biggest bank robbery in UK history, it was never punished
by exclusion from power.
For the peace process was solely about ensuring the IRA never bombed
London again; and as far as MI5 - the prime movers of the peace
process - was concerned, the corruption of Northern Irish political
life was a small price to pay.
The Agreement has turned religion from being just a denominational and
theological matter into a permanent political identity. Meanwhile, the
compromises made to keep Sinn Fein-IRA in countenance, regardless of
all else, have effectively destroyed the centrist parties, the Ulster
Unionist Party and the SDLP.
Left standing are the two groups that have been the authors of so much
misery, bigotry and suffering down the decades: Ian Paisley's
Democratic Unionist Party, and of course, the political arm of the
IRA, Sinn Fein.
These are the thugs, killers and bigots who have dominated much of my
entire career as a journalist. I lived and worked in Belfast from 1971
to 1978, a period covered in my book, Watching the Door.
I arrived there as the divisions, long since established in what we
may only loosely call a society, were beginning to sink deep to its
very heart.
On the one hand, we had the Protestant fundamentalists, opposed to any
conciliation with the Catholic minority, led and inspired by the
Reverend - and by God, what a ludicrous title that is - Ian Paisley,
and on the other, we had the Provisional IRA, led in Derry by Martin
McGuinness. Thus the vice: between its teeth, a society about to be
crushed close to gibbering lunacy.
More than 3,700 people lost their lives in the ensuing madness. Those
of us who passed through the early, terrible days of the Troubles
carry with us memories that will never depart.
In my case, I see, every single day of my life, the face of Cpl Robert
Bankier, of the Royal Green Jackets. One night, I was eavesdropping on
the Army radio net when I heard a report of a relatively innocent
stoning incident in Cromac Square in Belfast: but to my riot-
accustomed ears it sounded more like the prelude to an IRA ambush. It
was: I heard the gunshots as I arrived, and discovered poor Cpl
Bankier dying beside his Land-Rover.
Over the coming months in 1971, under the weight of terrorist attack
and burdened by an idiotic Unionist government to which Westminster
had lent the British Army, Northern Ireland fell apart.
advertisement
If there was a terrorist barbarity in the moral repertoire, short of
suicide-bombing (though this would come later), the IRA tried it. If
there was an utterly counter-productive imbecility in the locker of
state folly, the Stormont government, with a dullard's witless fist,
reached for it - and usually with the backing of a government in
London whose ignorance of Ireland was as great as it was of
Azerbaijan.
It is important to remember that the IRA leaders did not want reform.
They were moral absolutists who sought just one thing: the British
out, by force of arms only, and the creation of an all-Ireland state,
with a Gaelic, Catholic ethos. No quarter could be given to such a
demand.
Furthermore, it was clear the Northern Ireland government - which was
not even the intellectual match of Basingstoke borough council - was
incapable of coping with the security crisis: yet London failed to
take charge. The icing on the cake was supplied by the British Army,
fresh from its native-bashing experiences in Aden, the lessons of
which it applied in generous measure upon Northern Ireland's skulls.
I have thought about this long and hard. You can go back in a time-
machine and suspend the Northern Ireland government before it
committed its worst blunders; you can teach the British Army manners;
you can reform the RUC. This is all possible.
But you can do nothing about the historical determination of the IRA
to have a war. And nor can you diminish the wide-spread Protestant
dislike of Catholics. These are irreducible truths which cannot be
removed from the equation by the fiat of mere will. Too many people in
Northern Ireland wanted a war for them to be denied it; and a war was
what they duly got.
And it has to be said, war was what the Republic of Ireland tolerated.
Even after the British Conservative Party had abandoned its strategic
and historic alliance with the Ulster Unionist Party, and insisted
that constitutional nationalists must be brought into government in
Northern Ireland, the Irish government continued to allow the IRA to
use its territory as an operational base.
No IRA atrocity - La Mon, in which a dozen Protestants were
incinerated alive by home-made napalm, or the murder of the British
ambassador and his secretary in Dublin, or the extermination of the
Mountbatten boat party of children and octogenarians, or the
Remembrance Sunday massacre at Enniskillen, or other bestialities too
numerous too list - was enough to make the Republic of Ireland destroy
the evil in its midst. It is a shocking thing to say about one's own
country: but it is the abominable truth.
And so we had a 25-year war, concluding with "informers" being drowned
during IRA interrogation in baths of cold water, and suicide bombers
blowing up soldiers (the difference from Iraq being their ignorance of
their fate). The war then came to a negotiated settlement between the
various forces which had foisted conflict on the Province.
Political power in Northern Ireland now effectively belongs to a
republican Tonton Macoute, and a semi-religious political sect. But it
is only power in the most etiolated sense, for these ugly, conjoined
sisters cannot actually govern.
and meanwhile, so-called "peace-lines", 12ft walls, have spread
through Belfast like fissures in a cracked plate. Ten years ago there
were 18 of them: now there are 40, in all, 13 miles long, keeping
Catholic and Protestant not merely physically apart, but blissfully
invisible to one another.
Moreover, most people have forgotten, or will not state, this central
truth. One way or another, and sooner or later, peace was a certainty.
The IRA capacity to strike had been diminished by a systematic
penetration of the terrorist structure by British agents.
Indeed, the obsequies upon the IRA's campaign could have been
pronounced at least a decade earlier, if the Irish Republic had shown
the necessary political courage to crush the IRA.
So the real achievement of the Belfast Agreement was to give a
political lifeline to a militarily doomed Sinn Fein-IRA. Its
leadership now has the power to decide whether to allow policing to
devolve to the Northern Ireland Executive (though this opera-bouffe
confection can agree on almost nothing).
Indeed, President McAleese told the Queen - in public, no less -that
Her Majesty would not be invited to Dublin until control of policing
had returned to Northern Ireland hands.
Apart from this being an astounding departure from both basic good
manners and presidential protocol - the Irish head of state no more
makes such public pronouncements on policy, while standing on what is
legally foreign soil, than does the British monarch - this has one
astonishing implication. It is that any possible invitation for the
Queen to visit Dublin is now entirely dependent upon the whim of the
Army council of the IRA.
In other words, relations between the two Anglophone states of the EU
are to be presided over by a group of failed terrorists. Like the ...
read more »
The Cross boys would have eaten the Rangers for light breakfast.
Those free state bastards would have collapsed at Hackballs Cross. I
infiltrated the "rangers" and discovered that they were a useless
bunch of alcohics scarely competent to prevent the conversion to dog
food of Bobby Nairac. Half of them suffered from syphillis. On a
good day a decent volunteer with a Barrett would have cleared the
lot...
A decent volunteer seems to be a pretty rare creature in the circles
you move in. And what's more, I don't believe you've ever seen or
touched a Barrett in your life. As far as I can make out, the only
organisation you've ever managed to infiltrate is the welfare system.
Your colleagues must be thrilled to learn that they're paying your way
through your useless life.
Whack all imperialists
2008-03-31 19:51:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Highlander
Post by Whack all imperialists
Post by The Highlander
I rated this post as total shit. Unfortunately, the "total shit"
option is not supplied by Google, but by our resident mental nutcase.
Suck on this one Seumas!
Staring into Northern Ireland's moral abyss
 By Kevin Myers
Last Updated: 2:23am BST 30/03/2008
As if almost to acknowledge the victory of nationalist Ireland in the
moral abyss that has been the Northern Ireland peace process, the
Queen visited Belfast on Good Friday, the nationalist anniversary of
the Agreement of 10 years ago.
For as with almost everything in the province, that accord has two
identities. Unionists call it the Belfast Agreement and commemorate it
on the date it occurred, April 10.
Catholic nationalists link it with the Holy Day with which it happened
to coincide, the moveable feast of Good Friday. And that, of course,
was the day the Government chose for the Queen's visit.
Moral abyss? How could it be a moral abyss? Did it not bring peace to
Northern Ireland? Well, no, not really. The IRA had been all but
defeated by 1994. Its ranks, including its army council, were riddled
with informers.
The South Armagh salient alone held out, inviolate, intact and
unbroken; but this was only possible because respective Dublin
governments refused to seal the border around the salient, or to
unleash their special forces, the Rangers, on the IRA: and the
Rangers, moreover, would have relished the job.
Instead, Sinn Fein-IRA was brought, bought and feted into the peace
process, its leaders welcomed by Tony Blair at Chequers, while their
rivals in the Catholic population, the constitutional SDLP, were all
but frozen out by both governments.
No tea and biscuits for peaceful nationalists; only those who had
blown the heart out of London, who had tortured people to death, who
had been responsible for starting and continuing a savage war, got the
hospitality, and in due course, a place in the power-sharing
Executive.
This is Machiavellian real-politik, is it not? Indeed it is: and the
electors of Northern Ireland soon recognised it for just that. They
are not fools: if extremes were being rewarded for being extreme, then
clearly, the extremes should be the people to vote for.
Moreover, even though the IRA continued to murder people after the
Agreement of 1998, and mounted intelligence operations against other
members of the Executive, even though its agents were tracking the
movements of former ministers for justice in Dublin, even though it
mounted the biggest bank robbery in UK history, it was never punished
by exclusion from power.
For the peace process was solely about ensuring the IRA never bombed
London again; and as far as MI5 - the prime movers of the peace
process - was concerned, the corruption of Northern Irish political
life was a small price to pay.
The Agreement has turned religion from being just a denominational and
theological matter into a permanent political identity. Meanwhile, the
compromises made to keep Sinn Fein-IRA in countenance, regardless of
all else, have effectively destroyed the centrist parties, the Ulster
Unionist Party and the SDLP.
Left standing are the two groups that have been the authors of so much
misery, bigotry and suffering down the decades: Ian Paisley's
Democratic Unionist Party, and of course, the political arm of the
IRA, Sinn Fein.
These are the thugs, killers and bigots who have dominated much of my
entire career as a journalist. I lived and worked in Belfast from 1971
to 1978, a period covered in my book, Watching the Door.
I arrived there as the divisions, long since established in what we
may only loosely call a society, were beginning to sink deep to its
very heart.
On the one hand, we had the Protestant fundamentalists, opposed to any
conciliation with the Catholic minority, led and inspired by the
Reverend - and by God, what a ludicrous title that is - Ian Paisley,
and on the other, we had the Provisional IRA, led in Derry by Martin
McGuinness. Thus the vice: between its teeth, a society about to be
crushed close to gibbering lunacy.
More than 3,700 people lost their lives in the ensuing madness. Those
of us who passed through the early, terrible days of the Troubles
carry with us memories that will never depart.
In my case, I see, every single day of my life, the face of Cpl Robert
Bankier, of the Royal Green Jackets. One night, I was eavesdropping on
the Army radio net when I heard a report of a relatively innocent
stoning incident in Cromac Square in Belfast: but to my riot-
accustomed ears it sounded more like the prelude to an IRA ambush. It
was: I heard the gunshots as I arrived, and discovered poor Cpl
Bankier dying beside his Land-Rover.
Over the coming months in 1971, under the weight of terrorist attack
and burdened by an idiotic Unionist government to which Westminster
had lent the British Army, Northern Ireland fell apart.
advertisement
If there was a terrorist barbarity in the moral repertoire, short of
suicide-bombing (though this would come later), the IRA tried it. If
there was an utterly counter-productive imbecility in the locker of
state folly, the Stormont government, with a dullard's witless fist,
reached for it - and usually with the backing of a government in
London whose ignorance of Ireland was as great as it was of
Azerbaijan.
It is important to remember that the IRA leaders did not want reform.
They were moral absolutists who sought just one thing: the British
out, by force of arms only, and the creation of an all-Ireland state,
with a Gaelic, Catholic ethos. No quarter could be given to such a
demand.
Furthermore, it was clear the Northern Ireland government - which was
not even the intellectual match of Basingstoke borough council - was
incapable of coping with the security crisis: yet London failed to
take charge. The icing on the cake was supplied by the British Army,
fresh from its native-bashing experiences in Aden, the lessons of
which it applied in generous measure upon Northern Ireland's skulls.
I have thought about this long and hard. You can go back in a time-
machine and suspend the Northern Ireland government before it
committed its worst blunders; you can teach the British Army manners;
you can reform the RUC. This is all possible.
But you can do nothing about the historical determination of the IRA
to have a war. And nor can you diminish the wide-spread Protestant
dislike of Catholics. These are irreducible truths which cannot be
removed from the equation by the fiat of mere will. Too many people in
Northern Ireland wanted a war for them to be denied it; and a war was
what they duly got.
And it has to be said, war was what the Republic of Ireland tolerated.
Even after the British Conservative Party had abandoned its strategic
and historic alliance with the Ulster Unionist Party, and insisted
that constitutional nationalists must be brought into government in
Northern Ireland, the Irish government continued to allow the IRA to
use its territory as an operational base.
No IRA atrocity - La Mon, in which a dozen Protestants were
incinerated alive by home-made napalm, or the murder of the British
ambassador and his secretary in Dublin, or the extermination of the
Mountbatten boat party of children and octogenarians, or the
Remembrance Sunday massacre at Enniskillen, or other bestialities too
numerous too list - was enough to make the Republic of Ireland destroy
the evil in its midst. It is a shocking thing to say about one's own
country: but it is the abominable truth.
And so we had a 25-year war, concluding with "informers" being drowned
during IRA interrogation in baths of cold water, and suicide bombers
blowing up soldiers (the difference from Iraq being their ignorance of
their fate). The war then came to a negotiated settlement between the
various forces which had foisted conflict on the Province.
Political power in Northern Ireland now effectively belongs to a
republican Tonton Macoute, and a semi-religious political sect. But it
is only power in the most etiolated sense, for these ugly, conjoined
sisters cannot actually govern.
and meanwhile, so-called "peace-lines", 12ft walls, have spread
through Belfast like fissures in a cracked plate. Ten years ago there
were 18 of them: now there are 40, in all, 13 miles long, keeping
Catholic and Protestant not merely physically apart, but blissfully
invisible to one another.
Moreover, most people have forgotten, or will not state, this central
truth. One way or another, and sooner or later, peace was a certainty.
The IRA capacity to strike had been diminished by a systematic
penetration of the terrorist structure by British agents.
Indeed, the obsequies upon the IRA's campaign could have been
pronounced at least a decade earlier, if the Irish Republic had shown
the necessary political courage to crush the IRA.
So the real achievement of the Belfast Agreement was to give a
political lifeline to a militarily doomed Sinn Fein-IRA. Its
leadership now has the power to decide whether to allow policing to
devolve to the Northern Ireland Executive (though this opera-bouffe
confection can agree on almost nothing).
Indeed, President McAleese told the Queen - in public, no less -that
Her Majesty would not be invited to Dublin until control of policing
had returned to Northern Ireland hands.
Apart from this being an astounding departure from both basic good
manners and presidential protocol - the Irish head of state no more
makes such public pronouncements on policy, while standing on what is
legally foreign soil, than does the British monarch - this has one
astonishing implication. It is that any possible invitation for the
Queen to visit Dublin is now entirely dependent upon the whim of the
Army council of the IRA.
In other words, relations between the two Anglophone states of the EU
are to be presided over by a group of failed terrorists. Like the ...
read more »
The Cross boys would have eaten the Rangers for light breakfast.
Those free state bastards would have collapsed at Hackballs Cross.  I
infiltrated the "rangers" and discovered that they were a useless
bunch of alcohics scarely competent to prevent the conversion to dog
food of Bobby Nairac.  Half of them suffered from syphillis.  On a
good day a decent volunteer with a Barrett would have cleared the
lot...
A decent volunteer seems to be a pretty rare creature in the circles
you move in. And what's more, I don't believe you've ever seen or
touched a Barrett in your life. As far as I can make out, the only
organisation you've ever managed to infiltrate is the welfare system.
Your colleagues must be thrilled to learn that they're paying your way
through your useless life.
Typically stupid wannabe Brit rant. With few exceptions, all
volunteers were and remain to be both politically pure and
courageous. They will prevail. In a cowardly David -v- Goliath
struggle instigated by the invasion of Ireland by crown forces in
possession of vastly superior technology and resources, the volunteers
stood their ground just as they did from 1916 to 1923. How many brits
cowardly committed suicide between 1970 and 1994 rather than face the
challenge of the brave volunteers?

P.S.

Phil the Greek is now shoving feta cheese up the corgies' arses as a
lubricant....
mothed out
2008-03-31 20:16:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Whack all imperialists
Post by The Highlander
Post by Whack all imperialists
Post by The Highlander
I rated this post as total shit. Unfortunately, the "total shit"
option is not supplied by Google, but by our resident mental nutcase.
Suck on this one Seumas!
Staring into Northern Ireland's moral abyss
By Kevin Myers
Last Updated: 2:23am BST 30/03/2008
As if almost to acknowledge the victory of nationalist Ireland in the
moral abyss that has been the Northern Ireland peace process, the
Queen visited Belfast on Good Friday, the nationalist anniversary of
the Agreement of 10 years ago.
For as with almost everything in the province, that accord has two
identities. Unionists call it the Belfast Agreement and commemorate it
on the date it occurred, April 10.
Catholic nationalists link it with the Holy Day with which it happened
to coincide, the moveable feast of Good Friday. And that, of course,
was the day the Government chose for the Queen's visit.
Moral abyss? How could it be a moral abyss? Did it not bring peace to
Northern Ireland? Well, no, not really. The IRA had been all but
defeated by 1994. Its ranks, including its army council, were riddled
with informers.
The South Armagh salient alone held out, inviolate, intact and
unbroken; but this was only possible because respective Dublin
governments refused to seal the border around the salient, or to
unleash their special forces, the Rangers, on the IRA: and the
Rangers, moreover, would have relished the job.
Instead, Sinn Fein-IRA was brought, bought and feted into the peace
process, its leaders welcomed by Tony Blair at Chequers, while their
rivals in the Catholic population, the constitutional SDLP, were all
but frozen out by both governments.
No tea and biscuits for peaceful nationalists; only those who had
blown the heart out of London, who had tortured people to death, who
had been responsible for starting and continuing a savage war, got the
hospitality, and in due course, a place in the power-sharing
Executive.
This is Machiavellian real-politik, is it not? Indeed it is: and the
electors of Northern Ireland soon recognised it for just that. They
are not fools: if extremes were being rewarded for being extreme, then
clearly, the extremes should be the people to vote for.
Moreover, even though the IRA continued to murder people after the
Agreement of 1998, and mounted intelligence operations against other
members of the Executive, even though its agents were tracking the
movements of former ministers for justice in Dublin, even though it
mounted the biggest bank robbery in UK history, it was never punished
by exclusion from power.
For the peace process was solely about ensuring the IRA never bombed
London again; and as far as MI5 - the prime movers of the peace
process - was concerned, the corruption of Northern Irish political
life was a small price to pay.
The Agreement has turned religion from being just a denominational and
theological matter into a permanent political identity. Meanwhile, the
compromises made to keep Sinn Fein-IRA in countenance, regardless of
all else, have effectively destroyed the centrist parties, the Ulster
Unionist Party and the SDLP.
Left standing are the two groups that have been the authors of so much
misery, bigotry and suffering down the decades: Ian Paisley's
Democratic Unionist Party, and of course, the political arm of the
IRA, Sinn Fein.
These are the thugs, killers and bigots who have dominated much of my
entire career as a journalist. I lived and worked in Belfast from 1971
to 1978, a period covered in my book, Watching the Door.
I arrived there as the divisions, long since established in what we
may only loosely call a society, were beginning to sink deep to its
very heart.
On the one hand, we had the Protestant fundamentalists, opposed to any
conciliation with the Catholic minority, led and inspired by the
Reverend - and by God, what a ludicrous title that is - Ian Paisley,
and on the other, we had the Provisional IRA, led in Derry by Martin
McGuinness. Thus the vice: between its teeth, a society about to be
crushed close to gibbering lunacy.
More than 3,700 people lost their lives in the ensuing madness. Those
of us who passed through the early, terrible days of the Troubles
carry with us memories that will never depart.
In my case, I see, every single day of my life, the face of Cpl Robert
Bankier, of the Royal Green Jackets. One night, I was eavesdropping on
the Army radio net when I heard a report of a relatively innocent
stoning incident in Cromac Square in Belfast: but to my riot-
accustomed ears it sounded more like the prelude to an IRA ambush. It
was: I heard the gunshots as I arrived, and discovered poor Cpl
Bankier dying beside his Land-Rover.
Over the coming months in 1971, under the weight of terrorist attack
and burdened by an idiotic Unionist government to which Westminster
had lent the British Army, Northern Ireland fell apart.
advertisement
If there was a terrorist barbarity in the moral repertoire, short of
suicide-bombing (though this would come later), the IRA tried it. If
there was an utterly counter-productive imbecility in the locker of
state folly, the Stormont government, with a dullard's witless fist,
reached for it - and usually with the backing of a government in
London whose ignorance of Ireland was as great as it was of
Azerbaijan.
It is important to remember that the IRA leaders did not want reform.
They were moral absolutists who sought just one thing: the British
out, by force of arms only, and the creation of an all-Ireland state,
with a Gaelic, Catholic ethos. No quarter could be given to such a
demand.
Furthermore, it was clear the Northern Ireland government - which was
not even the intellectual match of Basingstoke borough council - was
incapable of coping with the security crisis: yet London failed to
take charge. The icing on the cake was supplied by the British Army,
fresh from its native-bashing experiences in Aden, the lessons of
which it applied in generous measure upon Northern Ireland's skulls.
I have thought about this long and hard. You can go back in a time-
machine and suspend the Northern Ireland government before it
committed its worst blunders; you can teach the British Army manners;
you can reform the RUC. This is all possible.
But you can do nothing about the historical determination of the IRA
to have a war. And nor can you diminish the wide-spread Protestant
dislike of Catholics. These are irreducible truths which cannot be
removed from the equation by the fiat of mere will. Too many people in
Northern Ireland wanted a war for them to be denied it; and a war was
what they duly got.
And it has to be said, war was what the Republic of Ireland tolerated.
Even after the British Conservative Party had abandoned its strategic
and historic alliance with the Ulster Unionist Party, and insisted
that constitutional nationalists must be brought into government in
Northern Ireland, the Irish government continued to allow the IRA to
use its territory as an operational base.
No IRA atrocity - La Mon, in which a dozen Protestants were
incinerated alive by home-made napalm, or the murder of the British
ambassador and his secretary in Dublin, or the extermination of the
Mountbatten boat party of children and octogenarians, or the
Remembrance Sunday massacre at Enniskillen, or other bestialities too
numerous too list - was enough to make the Republic of Ireland destroy
the evil in its midst. It is a shocking thing to say about one's own
country: but it is the abominable truth.
And so we had a 25-year war, concluding with "informers" being drowned
during IRA interrogation in baths of cold water, and suicide bombers
blowing up soldiers (the difference from Iraq being their ignorance of
their fate). The war then came to a negotiated settlement between the
various forces which had foisted conflict on the Province.
Political power in Northern Ireland now effectively belongs to a
republican Tonton Macoute, and a semi-religious political sect. But it
is only power in the most etiolated sense, for these ugly, conjoined
sisters cannot actually govern.
and meanwhile, so-called "peace-lines", 12ft walls, have spread
through Belfast like fissures in a cracked plate. Ten years ago there
were 18 of them: now there are 40, in all, 13 miles long, keeping
Catholic and Protestant not merely physically apart, but blissfully
invisible to one another.
Moreover, most people have forgotten, or will not state, this central
truth. One way or another, and sooner or later, peace was a certainty.
The IRA capacity to strike had been diminished by a systematic
penetration of the terrorist structure by British agents.
Indeed, the obsequies upon the IRA's campaign could have been
pronounced at least a decade earlier, if the Irish Republic had shown
the necessary political courage to crush the IRA.
So the real achievement of the Belfast Agreement was to give a
political lifeline to a militarily doomed Sinn Fein-IRA. Its
leadership now has the power to decide whether to allow policing to
devolve to the Northern Ireland Executive (though this opera-bouffe
confection can agree on almost nothing).
Indeed, President McAleese told the Queen - in public, no less -that
Her Majesty would not be invited to Dublin until control of policing
had returned to Northern Ireland hands.
Apart from this being an astounding departure from both basic good
manners and presidential protocol - the Irish head of state no more
makes such public pronouncements on policy, while standing on what is
legally foreign soil, than does the British monarch - this has one
astonishing implication. It is that any possible invitation for the
Queen to visit Dublin is now entirely dependent upon the whim of the
Army council of the IRA.
In other words, relations between the two Anglophone states of the EU
are to be presided over by a group of failed terrorists. Like the ...
read more »
The Cross boys would have eaten the Rangers for light breakfast.
Those free state bastards would have collapsed at Hackballs Cross. I
infiltrated the "rangers" and discovered that they were a useless
bunch of alcohics scarely competent to prevent the conversion to dog
food of Bobby Nairac. Half of them suffered from syphillis. On a
good day a decent volunteer with a Barrett would have cleared the
lot...
A decent volunteer seems to be a pretty rare creature in the circles
you move in. And what's more, I don't believe you've ever seen or
touched a Barrett in your life. As far as I can make out, the only
organisation you've ever managed to infiltrate is the welfare system.
Your colleagues must be thrilled to learn that they're paying your way
through your useless life.
Typically stupid wannabe Brit rant. With few exceptions, all
volunteers were and remain to be both politically pure and
courageous. They will prevail. In a cowardly David -v- Goliath
struggle instigated by the invasion of Ireland by crown forces in
possession of vastly superior technology and resources, the volunteers
stood their ground just as they did from 1916 to 1923. How many brits
cowardly committed suicide between 1970 and 1994 rather than face the
challenge of the brave volunteers?
P.S.
Phil the Greek is now shoving feta cheese up the corgies' arses as a
lubricant....
Phfaah, no doubt you've got all the empty words about 'respecting all
religious backgrounds equally', but so quick to disregard what is
sacred to others when it suits your narrow political agenda:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/6734469.stm
Westprog
2008-03-31 21:47:13 UTC
Permalink
mothed out wrote:
...
Post by mothed out
Phfaah, no doubt you've got all the empty words about 'respecting all
religious backgrounds equally', but so quick to disregard what is
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/6734469.stm

The IRA would have been stupid and evil even if they had been good at what
they did. As it is, they weren't particularly good at anything. One
successful German machine gun crew in 1944 would probably have killed more
British soldiers than the IRA did in thirty years. Whenever they encountered
special forces one on one on reasonably equal terms they usually came off
worst. It's unsurprising - they were amateurs, except in their practice of
criminality which became a full time job eventually. They never had the
nerve to escalate the war to the level where massive civilian casualties
would have resulted.

When ex-servicemen talk up the amazing capabilities of the IRA, it's a bit
like fishermen talking about the one that got away.
--
J/

SOTW: "Rat(tlesnake) In Mi Kitchen" - UB40

www.tolife.shadowcat.name
mothed out
2008-04-01 11:30:45 UTC
Permalink
...
Post by mothed out
Phfaah, no doubt you've got all the empty words about 'respecting all
religious backgrounds equally', but so quick to disregard what is
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/6734...
The IRA would have been stupid and evil even if they had been good at what
they did. As it is, they weren't particularly good at anything. One
successful German machine gun crew in 1944 would probably have killed more
British soldiers than the IRA did in thirty years. Whenever they encountered
special forces one on one on reasonably equal terms they usually came off
worst. It's unsurprising - they were amateurs, except in their practice of
criminality which became a full time job eventually. They never had the
nerve to escalate the war to the level where massive civilian casualties
would have resulted.
When ex-servicemen talk up the amazing capabilities of the IRA, it's a bit
like fishermen talking about the one that got away.
The certainty of not attaining the goal came from engaging in a thirty
year campaign based on violence for a UI when you don't have anything
like the support in Ireland itself for your methods, support which
fell even lower when people found out how they were expected, sorry,
required, to fund it. I may not necessarily have stated that so
frankly had I not spent several years in Ireland, but that is the
conclusion I've come to not just from reading but from listening to
and observing and talking to Irish people over many years, and
following many kinds of media output, not just the 'official' media.
Support there was, but never anything approaching enough support.
--
J/
SOTW: "Rat(tlesnake) In Mi Kitchen" - UB40
www.tolife.shadowcat.name
Westprog
2008-04-01 12:34:45 UTC
Permalink
mothed out wrote:
...
Post by mothed out
Post by Westprog
The IRA would have been stupid and evil even if they had been good
at what they did. As it is, they weren't particularly good at
anything. One successful German machine gun crew in 1944 would
probably have killed more British soldiers than the IRA did in
thirty years. Whenever they encountered special forces one on one on
reasonably equal terms they usually came off worst. It's
unsurprising - they were amateurs, except in their practice of
criminality which became a full time job eventually. They never had
the nerve to escalate the war to the level where massive civilian
casualties would have resulted.
When ex-servicemen talk up the amazing capabilities of the IRA, it's
a bit like fishermen talking about the one that got away.
The certainty of not attaining the goal came from engaging in a thirty
year campaign based on violence for a UI when you don't have anything
like the support in Ireland itself for your methods, support which
fell even lower when people found out how they were expected, sorry,
required, to fund it. I may not necessarily have stated that so
frankly had I not spent several years in Ireland, but that is the
conclusion I've come to not just from reading but from listening to
and observing and talking to Irish people over many years, and
following many kinds of media output, not just the 'official' media.
Support there was, but never anything approaching enough support.
The idea seemed to be that even though they didn't have popular support, the
process of making war would have swung the support of the masses behind
them, like 1916.
--
J/

SOTW: "Rat(tlesnake) In Mi Kitchen" - UB40

www.tolife.shadowcat.name
Westprog
2008-04-01 12:35:57 UTC
Permalink
"The speech had been proceeding for perhaps twenty minutes when a messenger
hurried on to the platform and a scrap of paper was slipped into the
speaker's hand. He unrolled and read it without pausing in his speech.
Nothing altered in his voice or manner, or in the content of what he was
saying, but suddenly the names were different. Without words said, a wave of
understanding rippled through the crowd. Oceania was at war with Eastasia!
The next moment there was a tremendous commotion. The banners and posters
with which the square was decorated were all wrong! Quite half of them had
the wrong faces on them. It was sabotage! The agents of Goldstein had been
at work! There was a riotous interlude while posters were ripped from the
walls, banners torn to shreds and trampled underfoot. The Spies performed
prodigies of activity in clambering over the rooftops and cutting the
streamers that fluttered from the chimneys. But within two or three minutes
it was all over. The orator, still gripping the neck of the microphone, his
shoulders hunched forward, his free hand clawing at the air, had gone
straight on with his speech. One minute more, and the feral roars of rage
were again bursting from the crowd. The Hate continued exactly as before,
except that the target had been changed."
--
J/

SOTW: "Rat(tlesnake) In Mi Kitchen" - UB40

www.tolife.shadowcat.name
The Highlander
2008-03-31 14:39:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Whack all imperialists
Post by The Highlander
I rated this post as total shit. Unfortunately, the "total shit"
option is not supplied by Google, but by our resident mental nutcase.
Suck on this one Seumas!
Staring into Northern Ireland's moral abyss
By Kevin Myers
Last Updated: 2:23am BST 30/03/2008
As if almost to acknowledge the victory of nationalist Ireland in the
moral abyss that has been the Northern Ireland peace process, the
Queen visited Belfast on Good Friday, the nationalist anniversary of
the Agreement of 10 years ago.
For as with almost everything in the province, that accord has two
identities. Unionists call it the Belfast Agreement and commemorate it
on the date it occurred, April 10.
Catholic nationalists link it with the Holy Day with which it happened
to coincide, the moveable feast of Good Friday. And that, of course,
was the day the Government chose for the Queen's visit.
Moral abyss? How could it be a moral abyss? Did it not bring peace to
Northern Ireland? Well, no, not really. The IRA had been all but
defeated by 1994. Its ranks, including its army council, were riddled
with informers.
The South Armagh salient alone held out, inviolate, intact and
unbroken; but this was only possible because respective Dublin
governments refused to seal the border around the salient, or to
unleash their special forces, the Rangers, on the IRA: and the
Rangers, moreover, would have relished the job.
Instead, Sinn Fein-IRA was brought, bought and feted into the peace
process, its leaders welcomed by Tony Blair at Chequers, while their
rivals in the Catholic population, the constitutional SDLP, were all
but frozen out by both governments.
No tea and biscuits for peaceful nationalists; only those who had
blown the heart out of London, who had tortured people to death, who
had been responsible for starting and continuing a savage war, got the
hospitality, and in due course, a place in the power-sharing
Executive.
This is Machiavellian real-politik, is it not? Indeed it is: and the
electors of Northern Ireland soon recognised it for just that. They
are not fools: if extremes were being rewarded for being extreme, then
clearly, the extremes should be the people to vote for.
Moreover, even though the IRA continued to murder people after the
Agreement of 1998, and mounted intelligence operations against other
members of the Executive, even though its agents were tracking the
movements of former ministers for justice in Dublin, even though it
mounted the biggest bank robbery in UK history, it was never punished
by exclusion from power.
For the peace process was solely about ensuring the IRA never bombed
London again; and as far as MI5 - the prime movers of the peace
process - was concerned, the corruption of Northern Irish political
life was a small price to pay.
The Agreement has turned religion from being just a denominational and
theological matter into a permanent political identity. Meanwhile, the
compromises made to keep Sinn Fein-IRA in countenance, regardless of
all else, have effectively destroyed the centrist parties, the Ulster
Unionist Party and the SDLP.
Left standing are the two groups that have been the authors of so much
misery, bigotry and suffering down the decades: Ian Paisley's
Democratic Unionist Party, and of course, the political arm of the
IRA, Sinn Fein.
These are the thugs, killers and bigots who have dominated much of my
entire career as a journalist. I lived and worked in Belfast from 1971
to 1978, a period covered in my book, Watching the Door.
I arrived there as the divisions, long since established in what we
may only loosely call a society, were beginning to sink deep to its
very heart.
On the one hand, we had the Protestant fundamentalists, opposed to any
conciliation with the Catholic minority, led and inspired by the
Reverend - and by God, what a ludicrous title that is - Ian Paisley,
and on the other, we had the Provisional IRA, led in Derry by Martin
McGuinness. Thus the vice: between its teeth, a society about to be
crushed close to gibbering lunacy.
More than 3,700 people lost their lives in the ensuing madness. Those
of us who passed through the early, terrible days of the Troubles
carry with us memories that will never depart.
In my case, I see, every single day of my life, the face of Cpl Robert
Bankier, of the Royal Green Jackets. One night, I was eavesdropping on
the Army radio net when I heard a report of a relatively innocent
stoning incident in Cromac Square in Belfast: but to my riot-
accustomed ears it sounded more like the prelude to an IRA ambush. It
was: I heard the gunshots as I arrived, and discovered poor Cpl
Bankier dying beside his Land-Rover.
Over the coming months in 1971, under the weight of terrorist attack
and burdened by an idiotic Unionist government to which Westminster
had lent the British Army, Northern Ireland fell apart.
advertisement
If there was a terrorist barbarity in the moral repertoire, short of
suicide-bombing (though this would come later), the IRA tried it. If
there was an utterly counter-productive imbecility in the locker of
state folly, the Stormont government, with a dullard's witless fist,
reached for it - and usually with the backing of a government in
London whose ignorance of Ireland was as great as it was of
Azerbaijan.
It is important to remember that the IRA leaders did not want reform.
They were moral absolutists who sought just one thing: the British
out, by force of arms only, and the creation of an all-Ireland state,
with a Gaelic, Catholic ethos. No quarter could be given to such a
demand.
Furthermore, it was clear the Northern Ireland government - which was
not even the intellectual match of Basingstoke borough council - was
incapable of coping with the security crisis: yet London failed to
take charge. The icing on the cake was supplied by the British Army,
fresh from its native-bashing experiences in Aden, the lessons of
which it applied in generous measure upon Northern Ireland's skulls.
I have thought about this long and hard. You can go back in a time-
machine and suspend the Northern Ireland government before it
committed its worst blunders; you can teach the British Army manners;
you can reform the RUC. This is all possible.
But you can do nothing about the historical determination of the IRA
to have a war. And nor can you diminish the wide-spread Protestant
dislike of Catholics. These are irreducible truths which cannot be
removed from the equation by the fiat of mere will. Too many people in
Northern Ireland wanted a war for them to be denied it; and a war was
what they duly got.
And it has to be said, war was what the Republic of Ireland tolerated.
Even after the British Conservative Party had abandoned its strategic
and historic alliance with the Ulster Unionist Party, and insisted
that constitutional nationalists must be brought into government in
Northern Ireland, the Irish government continued to allow the IRA to
use its territory as an operational base.
No IRA atrocity - La Mon, in which a dozen Protestants were
incinerated alive by home-made napalm, or the murder of the British
ambassador and his secretary in Dublin, or the extermination of the
Mountbatten boat party of children and octogenarians, or the
Remembrance Sunday massacre at Enniskillen, or other bestialities too
numerous too list - was enough to make the Republic of Ireland destroy
the evil in its midst. It is a shocking thing to say about one's own
country: but it is the abominable truth.
And so we had a 25-year war, concluding with "informers" being drowned
during IRA interrogation in baths of cold water, and suicide bombers
blowing up soldiers (the difference from Iraq being their ignorance of
their fate). The war then came to a negotiated settlement between the
various forces which had foisted conflict on the Province.
Political power in Northern Ireland now effectively belongs to a
republican Tonton Macoute, and a semi-religious political sect. But it
is only power in the most etiolated sense, for these ugly, conjoined
sisters cannot actually govern.
and meanwhile, so-called "peace-lines", 12ft walls, have spread
through Belfast like fissures in a cracked plate. Ten years ago there
were 18 of them: now there are 40, in all, 13 miles long, keeping
Catholic and Protestant not merely physically apart, but blissfully
invisible to one another.
Moreover, most people have forgotten, or will not state, this central
truth. One way or another, and sooner or later, peace was a certainty.
The IRA capacity to strike had been diminished by a systematic
penetration of the terrorist structure by British agents.
Indeed, the obsequies upon the IRA's campaign could have been
pronounced at least a decade earlier, if the Irish Republic had shown
the necessary political courage to crush the IRA.
So the real achievement of the Belfast Agreement was to give a
political lifeline to a militarily doomed Sinn Fein-IRA. Its
leadership now has the power to decide whether to allow policing to
devolve to the Northern Ireland Executive (though this opera-bouffe
confection can agree on almost nothing).
Indeed, President McAleese told the Queen - in public, no less -that
Her Majesty would not be invited to Dublin until control of policing
had returned to Northern Ireland hands.
Apart from this being an astounding departure from both basic good
manners and presidential protocol - the Irish head of state no more
makes such public pronouncements on policy, while standing on what is
legally foreign soil, than does the British monarch - this has one
astonishing implication. It is that any possible invitation for the
Queen to visit Dublin is now entirely dependent upon the whim of the
Army council of the IRA.
In other words, relations between the two Anglophone states of the EU
are to be presided over by a group of failed terrorists. Like the ...
read more »
The Cross boys would have eaten the Rangers for light breakfast.
Those free state bastards would have collapsed at Hackballs Cross. I
infiltrated the "rangers" and discovered that they were a useless
bunch of alcohics scarely competent to prevent the conversion to dog
food of Bobby Nairac. Half of them suffered from syphillis. On a
good day a decent volunteer with a Barrett would have cleared the
lot...
A decent volunteer seems to be a pretty rare creature in the circles
you move in. And what's more, I don't believe you've ever seen or
touched a Barrett in your life. As far as I can make out, the only
organisation you've ever managed to infiltrate is the welfare system.
Your colleagues must be thrilled to learn that they're paying your way
through your useless life.
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